New Off Peak Ticket Restriction Oxford Reading Cross Country?

[whole diary]

[eightf48544]

Heard last night about someone who was told on the barriers at Oxford that they cound no longer use a Cheap Day Return on a Vomiter (although they would want to is another matter!) from Oxford to Reading.

Is this correct? If so when was it introduced?

Another easment probably for the "Lighter Side". Passengers from stations between Hayes and West Ealing to stations between Maidenhead and Reading MAY travel via Slough as opposed to via Banbury or Ascot?
 

[JayMac]

Well, whoever did the telling hasn't got a clue what they are on about! Not unusual for gateline staff who have minimal training when it comes to ticket validities.

The inter-available fares between Oxford and Reading are set by FGW^▸ (First Great Western). XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) can add their own fares to the flow, as indeed they do on OXF^» (Oxford - next trains)-RDG^‡(resolve) with ADVs. In some instances they may also offer walk-up fares with the restriction "XC trains Only", if they so wish. What they cannot do is restrict travel on their trains with the inter-available fares set by the lead operator. The lead operator responsible for inter-available fares between Oxford and Reading is FGW. They set the price and any restrictions.

So if the person at the gateline had an 'Any Permitted' CDR^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day')) then that is available for use on any operator that provides a service between the two stations - or indeed part of the journey subject to permitted routes and break of journey rules. Use of the ticket is of course subject to the time restrictions - in this case: Restriction B3 as set by FGW.

B3 says:

OUTWARD TRAVEL               
By any train except those     
timed to depart Mondays to   
Fridays before 0900           
                             
RETURN TRAVEL                 
By any train

(my emphasis in bold)

If there were to be any restriction on which train company(s) could be used then this would have to be printed on the ticket, in accordance with Section B, para. 10 of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage:

10. Tickets valid only in trains of particular Train Companies

The validity of a ticket may:
a) be restricted to; or
b) prohibit
travel in the trains of a particular Train Company or Train Companies. Any such restriction
or prohibition will be shown on the ticket.

(Again, my emphasis)

CrossCountry do have an evening restriction on CDRs but only where they set the fare - for example Cheltenham to Birmingham New Street.

I would suggest that if you know the person who was given the duff information, you should get them to bring it to the attention of the station manager at Oxford so that the staff member can be suitably retrained!

[vacman]

where XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) sets CDR^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day')) fares there is an evening restriction but not where any normal TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) sets the fare.

[JayMac]

Are you suggesting that XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) is not a normal TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company), vacman? 

[JayMac]

Sort of related.....

I wonder if FGW^▸ (First Great Western) or ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) guards regularly ching pax travelling between Cheltenham and Gloucester with Off Peak Day Returns between 1530-1815? XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) set the CDR^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day')) fare so their evening restriction applies.

Mind you, I bet XC guards don't bother to excess either. The SDR is a whole 10p more expensive!

[eightf48544]

Thanks bignosemac, I'll pass it on to the guy. We all thought it was odd but as vacman says XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) is probably not a normal TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company).

[inspector_blakey]

Oxford gateline staff are somewhat hit-and-miss: whilst some are a credit to FGW^▸ (First Great Western), a significant proportion of them are, quite honestly, a uniformed (not to mention un-informed) liability who would be much better suited to manning a nightclub door than any kind of situation involving customer service.

I don't think I'd take any instructions like that from the gateline staff there without checking them with the duty manager...

[thetrout]

I don't think I'd take any instructions like that from the gateline staff there without checking them with the duty manager...

I've had a similar experience but in a slightly different context... Try accessing a Virgin Trains First Class Lounge on any ticket to a destination the receptionist doesn't know, they'll refuse entry siting it is not a Virgin Ticket. I knew you can use any 1st ticket in any of their lounges subject to making all or part of your journey on a VT^▸ (Virgin Trains - former franchises) Service...! Something that even when I showed the receptionist on my iPhone from VT's website, she tried to tell me was wrong. I questioned this saying that if it's on your companies website and it's wrong, then WHY is it up there...! A Shrug of the shoulders was all i received, At this point I was getting bored of debating it and demanded to speak to the manager...! The manager confirmed I was correct and that I could use the lounge

But in all seriousness, the amount of time i spent there argueing, it would have been worth the hassle of paying however much it is for a coffee and sitting with the rif raf ( ).

I'm starting to wonder secretly if VT discriminate agains't us youfs, My Grandad regularly uses VT and has NEVER had any problems accessing their First Class Lounges or buying Off Peak tickets onboard using a Disabled Railcard

But then I don't seem to have much luck with Virgin Trains do I...? Give me East Coast any day! Never had a problem accessing their lounges! and the coffee is so much better and you don't have to log into their WiFi, it's just an open AP

[JayMac]

I can perfectly understand that tt.

Pitching up at The 1st Class Lounge in Manchester in 2008, scruffy jeans and t-shirt, show a 1st Class All Line and told it was not valid. I didn't have access to the website, so had to go to the Virgin desk and ask them to look at their website. They refused, so I had to call Virgin Customer Services who confirmed my ticket was valid. I then had to wait while the CS Advisor placed a call to the lounge staff. Similar problems at New Street.

No apology from the sour-faced girl staffing the lounge when I finally let in. She did however cost her employer ^30 in rail vouchers after I complained.

Contrast that with Euston. Never had a problem there and the staff are fantastic, even serving you at your seat.

[readytostart]

Heard last night about someone who was told on the barriers at Oxford that they cound no longer use a Cheap Day Return on a Vomiter (although they would want to is another matter!) from Oxford to Reading.

Is this correct? If so when was it introduced?

Is it possible that they were travelling on a GroupSave CDR^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day'))? IN this case the advice that the ticket isn't valid would be correct. I've always found the gateline at Oxford to be a lot better than the one at Reading.

[JayMac]

GroupSave CDR^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day')) not valid on CrossCountry? Yes, we know that's what CrossCountry say, but the ticket restriction codes and the National Rail Conditions of Carriage say otherwise. They can have all the advertising and announcements they like, but they cannot trump the NRCoC^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Carriage) unless and until they ask all relevant TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) to change the ticket restrictions and/or have "Not Valid on XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise))" printed on all GroupSave tickets. Whilst CrossCountry continue to perpetuate the lie that GroupSave is not valid on their trains they are in breach of the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement and the NRCoC.

NFM07:



NRCoC:

10. Tickets valid only in trains of particular Train Companies
The validity of a ticket may:
a) be restricted to; or
b) prohibit
travel in the trains of a particular Train Company or Train Companies. Any such restriction
or prohibition will be shown on the ticket.

[super tm]

Yes but it is the DISCOUNT which is not valid.  The TICKET is valid on XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) trains but the DISCOUNT is not so dont see any problem with XC not allowing them on their trains.

[JayMac]

Tell me where the NRCoC^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Carriage) makes reference to the DISCOUNT not being valid. Only on the railway!!! "I'm sorry sir/madam, your ticket is valid but the discount isn't." Fupping madness.

Maybe semantics, but there is a distinction to be had between a discounted ticket and a buy X get X free, which is what GroupSave is advertised as being. 3 for 2 or 4 for 2.

[super tm]

12. Restrictions on when you can travel
Restrictions apply to the use of some tickets (including those bought with a Railcard) such
as the dates, days, and times when you can use them, and the trains in which they can
be used. These restrictions are set out in the notices and other publications of the Train
Companies whose trains you are entitled to use.

Group save is a discount product like a railcard so section 12 would cover it.  If we follow your line of reasoning then FGW^▸ (First Great Western) would not be able to ban GroupSave tickets to Cardiff or Twickenham on Rugby days.  They are also banned for use to Castle Cary during Glastonbury but no such restriction is printed on the ticket.

[JayMac]

I'll concede the point on Section 12, super tm.

But, I'd be willing to wager that CrossCountry still get their ORCATS^▸ (Operational Research Computerised Allocation of Tickets to Services) share from the sale of the GroupSave tickets. I'd be surprised if the ORCATS/LENNON^▸ (Latest Earnings Nationally Networked Over-Night ) software is sufficiently robust to differentiate between normal CDRs^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day')) and GroupSave CDRs.