Disabled man films Northern Rail refusal to help boarding train in Manchester

[whole diary]

[Super Guard]

BNM, as I said, the reaction is totally understandable and having now seen the video, it's a pretty atrocious way for any member of the public to be treated even if there was a valid reason that the wheelchair could not be taken.  The guard did not enquire whether he could be transferred to a seat/wheelchair collapsed out the way or anything.  The fact the media was the first port of call does not sit quite right with me, but it does not excuse the staff attitude.

[Tim]

I don't think any kind of message needs to be sent to us staff that this is not acceptable.  Please do not put us in the same boat as this Guard at all.

I mostly agree with this and the vast majority of staff are good people.  BUT, it wasn't just the one guard who caused the problem was it.  Other staff joined in and told lies in order to try and intimidate the customer to stop filming.  The staff attitude problem at Piccadilly can't wholy be blamed on one individual.  probably only one memebr of staff needs to be got rid of, but the others (the bystanders and the lier) need some re-training also.

Again, I make my oft repeated comment about (lack of) management of front line staff.  Staff on the ground do have a tough job, but are only human and sometimes get things wrong, but the only reason a member of staff thinks he can get away with this sort of customer abuse at a major station (and he would have got away with it if it hadn't been for the filming) must be because he assumes that  management don't give a s**t about his actions or that they will not find out. 

Note that the naughty guard is missing a tie and therefore not in proper uniform.  Not a huge crime and you might expect to see this on a rural branchline where things are out of sight.  But this at one of Northern's busiest stations!  Once upon a time the station master (wearing a top  hat himself)would have told him to smarten up.  You can bet that all the staff of Grand central or WSMR^▸ (Wrexham, Shropshire and Marylebone Railway) (or the lamented GNER^▸ (Great North Eastern Railways)) would have been in proper uniform.  Why ?- not because they are better people but simply because they have management that takes an interest. 

[smokey]

Right How many Train Managers/conductors would allow Passengers to Board in a WheelChair bound for Exeter St Thomas?

In the Video it is stated by the Chap that he is going Guide Bridge, which according to the NRES^▸ (National Rail Enquiry Service) site, is NOT wheelchair ACCESSABLE

[devon_metro]

Further emerging details:

The ramp on the 142 was partially broken and as such was not safe to carry an electric wheelchair and this was explained to the man and he was told to get the class 323 service 12 minutes later. When not satisfied he started filming. According to a number of sources he mutters in a language other than English "i'll get this b******"

[inspector_blakey]

Having watched the video in full on the Daily Hate website, I'm left with more questions than answers...

If the ramp really was broken, and so the passenger couldn't use that train, why is that simply not explained politely to him and an apology offered? Even if the guard and dispatcher aren't doing anything wrong, they give the strong impression that they are up to no good by their evasive answers and hostile attitude towards the customer. I'm inclined to agree with Donkey Guard that regardless of the rights or wrongs in this situation, that staff attitude can't be excused.

Although the arguments about the legality of filming at stations have been well-rehearsed elsewhere and it is perfectly legitimate, I think that there is more of a grey area when it comes to filming people specifically. However, again the hostility of the staff towards the photographer in this instance reinforces the impression that they're not acting acccording to the rules. One would have thought that if they were secure in the knowledge that they were behaving correctly, they would have been less defensive.

What is also not explained is why the passenger was supposedly "forced" to travel home by bus. If there was indeed another suitable service 12 minutes behind, why did he not take it? It would appear at the end of the video that the female member of staff has come to his assistance and is trying to help out. Did anyone tell him that there was this alternative service? Was he offered help to find and board it? Or did he just leave the station, either because he was so upset by the whole experience or trying to make a point, to seek out a different way home?

[JayMac]

Okay, so the guard realises he's being filmed, so why doesn't he state, on the record, that the ramp is broken and that Guide Bridge is not accesible.

I can't comment on the ramp being OOS, but if it was then being told that Guide Bridge is inaccessible is irrelevent. Guide Bridge is partially accessible with level access, on a tarmac'd pavement, to the platform on which trains from Manchester arrive.

As for the comments made on video in a foreign language - do you not think the various media outlets that have interviewed the guy would have checked out whether he was saying anything defamatory?

DG, are these 'further emerging details' from a reputable news source? If so, then can we have a link.

[brompton rail]

From reading another Forum and comments on Manchester Evening News website, it seems that because Class 142 floor level is higher than other rolling stock ( you have 2 steps to climb on 142) the ramp will not fit the platform at Guide Bridge without being too steep or not allowing room for the wheelchair to negotiate off the ramp onto the platform.

Ramps at Network Rail stations (like Manchester Piccadilly) are the responsibility of Network Rail staff and not the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company).

I doubt that we who were not witnesses can add much of value to this story, so perhaps we should leave it to Pete Myers of Northern to investigate and take the appropriate action. I doubt that the DM will report any more on this story.

[JayMac]

Ramps at Network Rail stations (like Manchester Piccadilly) are the responsibility of Network Rail staff and not the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company).

Is that really the case? The Class 142 has to carry its own special ramp as the standard ones are not suitable because of the double step up to the saloon, so in this instance the provision of a ramp to board the 142 at Piccadilly has to be down to the train staff surely.

The Guide Bridge platforms may well be too low for the 142 ramp and this would be a valid reason for not letting the disabled passenger alight there, so the guard and dispatcher should've said so on camera when they had the chance.

[brompton rail]

Apologies BigNoseMac, I should have said station staff.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

ok, i did think the ramp could have been the issue, i decided not to say anything, as already discussed this week there is too much speculation going on recently.... this guard may well have done nothing wrong as we all know there are two sides to every story and its wrong to judge of a video being 'directed' by one of the party's involved 

[vacman]

Apparently the guard is back at work now after the passengers story fell apart, he was told that he needed to get the next service 12 mins later that was operated by a 323 and thus could use the ramp at guide bridge, lets hope Northern get crucified for their premature "apology" making the guard look like the bad guy in the national media!

[bigdaz]

Apparently the guard is back at work now after the passengers story fell apart, he was told that he needed to get the next service 12 mins later that was operated by a 323 and thus could use the ramp at guide bridge, lets hope Northern get crucified for their premature "apology" making the guard look like the bad guy in the national media!

I partially disagree with this!

Being a public figure/servant, you are supposed to be professional AT ALL TIMES even if those around you not.  The video clearly shows an angry, hostile and completely unprofessional response from the rail staff.  As far as I'm concerned, the remaining issue is the CONDUCT of the Northern Rail staff in completely mishandling this type of situation and a possible LACK OF TRAINING in dealing with difficult customers.

[plymothian]

According to the complainant (read Railforums or Digital Spy) he has received a full apology from NR^» (Network Rail - home page) who state there is no reason why the guard refused and that the train and station are fully accessible.  NR apparently asked the complainant whether the guard should be sacked but he said no.  The complainant says that is the end of the matter in one breath and the next that he is awaiting a further (big) outcome that will satisfy him.

[vacman]

I've spoken to someone who knows the guard concerned, the passenger is banned from busses and black cabs in the area for similar abuse, it's what happened BEFORE the video started, yes the guard may have reacted a little unprofessionally but we are all human, the guard has had an appology from Northern and there were previous issues with the particular passenger where he nearly came off the ramp at Guide bridge which isn't a fully accesible station!!!

[JayMac]

According to the complainant (read Railforums or Digital Spy) he has received a full apology from NR^» (Network Rail - home page) who state there is no reason why the guard refused and that the train and station are fully accessible.  NR apparently asked the complainant whether the guard should be sacked but he said no.  The complainant says that is the end of the matter in one breath and the next that he is awaiting a further (big) outcome that will satisfy him.

I've followed this story on Digital Spy and RailUK Forums over the last month or so and I've come to the conclusion that tonyaryan is a bit of an a*se. He's stated that Northern have given him a full apology, yet Northern have been silent on the matter. As for Northern asking a customer whether they wanted a staff member sacked....that's just not the way disciplinary action happens. The unions would have a field day!

I'd take any utterances from tonyaryan with a pinch of salt. His story has be shot full of holes and he has be consistent in his inconsistency.

I took his original post on DigitalSpy, along with the youtube video, at face value (more fool me), but I find it very difficult to believe his version of events after reading all the posts on DS and RailUK Forums.