Eireann looking to offload Mk3 intercity coaches

[whole diary]

[woody]

"State railway company Iarnrod Eireann is to sell off dozens of trains left languishing in a railway 'graveyard' in Dublin.

The last of the iconic 80s orange and black intercity trains are to disappear forever after the company said yesterday it was hoping to sell or lease them. They are likely to end up in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom).

The rail company is seeking offers to buy or lease 82 Mark III passenger coaches built between 1984 and 1986."

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/irish-rail-company-eireann--looking-to-offload-iconic-intercity-trains-14918542.html

Opportunity knocks I think for some "value for money TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company).Certainly Xcountry could do worse than replacing its dreadful Voyager fleet with re-bogied Irish Mk3s.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

i agree, this is where they need to go... to xc and split the voyagers 50/50 between fgw and northen

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

also just noticed from link provided

air-conditioned, but they don't have the modern comfort standards passengers expect.

Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/irish-rail-company-eireann--looking-to-offload-iconic-intercity-trains-14918542.html#ixzz0xKITmvgd

ohhh so they are not mdf with fabric on oh thats a shame better not have those ... people may relax on the long journey

[paul7575]

XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) to replace their FLEET with 82 Mark 3s?

That doesn't sound right, let me see...

220001-034  132 vehicles
221119-141  115 vehicles

247 vehicles total... 

Paul

[willc]

And what exactly do you propose should propel these trains on 125mph XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) services?

It's not going to be the Class 67, because it has never run at more than 110mph apart from in early trials. And how many could DB^» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about) Schenker spare anyway? Allowing for those on long leases with W&S^▸ (Wrexham and Shropshire (Open Access Operator)) and Scotrail, maintenance, charters and any other loco-haulage hire contracts, you would probably do well to get a dozen to pull Irish Mk3s around, which is hardly going to meet XC's needs. IE are only offering two thirds of their fleet anyway (130 or so were built) which suggests the best ones (and the five push-pull driving cars) are being retained in case they and NIR beef up the Dublin-Belfast service.

Apart from the bogies and new interiors, they are likely to need rewiring - IE used generator cars, not locos, to provide power to the stock. They may well be a fix for part of the rolling stock shortage this side of the Irish Sea, but it won't be quick - look how long some of the recent heavy overhauls of Mk3s have taken - and it certainly won't be cheap. Not something either operators or the Government want to hear just now.

[woody]

XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) to replace their FLEET with 82 Mark 3s?

That doesn't sound right, let me see...

220001-034  132 vehicles
221119-141  115 vehicles

247 vehicles total... 

Paul

I believe that the original Virgin proposal for a new fleet of trains on XC involved a mix of voyagers and new loco hauled stock.Keep some of the voyagers for the shorter haul routes ie Bristol/Manchester and use loco hauled on the long haul routes as the XC HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) are now.Agree that sourcing the necessary traction now would be the main stumbling block but what was Virgin going to originally use to haul its proposed loco hauled services.Operating rammed 4 car voyagers from Scotland to the southwest is a joke to say the least.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

i personally believe that going along at 90 and having a seat is better than standing up at 125

[willc]

Unfortunately, where XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) services are sharing tracks with 125mph WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) and ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) expresses, pottering along at 90mph isn't an option any more for pathing reasons, never mind the sections of the Bristol-Birmingham-Derby axis that were upgraded to speeds up to 125mph to take advantage of the Voyagers' performance.

And if XC was that bothered about people having seats then it could work its HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) a bit harder.

[Tim]

And what exactly do you propose should propel these trains on 125mph XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) services?

http://www.csre.co.uk/intercity.html  brand new Mk III compatible power cars for less than ^2M which by recent standards is a bargain.  And in a decade or so when the Irish stock is getting old and the country can afford them, replace the coaches with Polaris new coaches

[willc]

But these Chinese trains have been hawked around for a number of years now (since Grand Central was being formed, I think) and not one has yet appeared. And I can't see DafT rushing to embrace them just now.

[Electric train]

But these Chinese trains have been hawked around for a number of years now (since Grand Central was being formed, I think) and not one has yet appeared. And I can't see DafT rushing to embrace them just now.

And they will need type testing, just because they are being promoted as an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) replacement does not mean they conform to NR^» (Network Rail - home page) and DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) requirements, testing is not a quick process especially for speeds above 75mph

[Tim]

I take both those points about the Chinese trains.  But the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) have recently met with manufacturers which suggests that they may be considering them.

They do seem to be less technically complex than other modern trains and certainly simpler than the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.).  This might speed up manufacture and testing.  () And the phased introduction of locos then coaches does seem to  be a sensible way of replacing life-expired stock without breaking the bank.

They also seem to be cheap (about half what the pendolinos cost).  I for one think it would be good for a new company to enter the rolling stock marker.  The Chinese are desperate to enter the European market.  If we ordered trans from them first then they might set up an essembly factory in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) rather than elsewhere in Europe which would be good for the UK.

I know that Grand Central has looked at the Polaris before and I wouldn't be surprised if an open access company placed the first order (nor would I be surprises if one of those companies got their hands on the Irish Mark IIIs).  I would argue that the open access companies have much more of a focus on value for money and customer comfort than NR^» (Network Rail - home page), DfT or the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) have, and the Polaris traisn would seem to score well on both fronts.

[eightf48544]

Another thing possibly in favour of the IE coaches is that  I believe they have power operated doors like the Wessex units.

The Mark 3 is a very tough  body shell Southall and Ladbroke Grove proved that so it seems a pity to waste them.

Pity we don't have many suitable locos to pull them. But then again a 125mph diesel loco to pull them under the wires seems a bit of a waste. Why not a loco change? After all apart from the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) there is little other non electrified 125 track in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom).

Then again do we have any 125 electric locos?

Perhaps use them on the MML^» (Midland Main Line. - about) with 57s. Release the Meridians to XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)). and ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) private operators.

[Tim]

Not a bad idea.  I asume that the MML^» (Midland Main Line. - about) linespeed is matched for the 57's top speed.

Moving stock round also causes depot problems.  The Voyagers have a home depot at Central Rivers which is not handly if the voyagers were sent to the SW.  A new depot would liekly need to be built.  Certainly existing depot staff might be on a sharp learning curve.

But giving XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) a few extra meridians to suplement their voyagers might work.