Henbury Loop Train Service

[whole diary]

[chuffed]

Thank you FT,N for making sense....yet again.... of a complicated issue. You have a wonderful capacity ( no pun intended !) to see the wood for the trees, to cut through obfuscation and spin, and give clear explanantions. So what are you doing in the Civil Service ??!!

[Bmblbzzz]

Expanding the service would be expensive. A 2 tph service is just attainable with an extra train set, something which should be achieved by MetroWest Rail phase 1. To make it 3 tph to SVB would need either redoubling of nearly 5 miles of track, or a passing loop and signal at least. Less money could be spent to strengthen capacity from Avonmouth by, say, bringing the junction at Clifton Down back to Montpelier, or the Avonmouth junction back to Sea Mills or Shirehampton. Either would add at least one tph to the capacity, and would involve relocation of points and signals rather than additional.

What does "bringing the junction back" mean? Extending the short section of double track or moving both start and end points, shifting the whole thing along? Or neither of those? Ta!

Also, when we're told the problem with Henbury Loop is capacity in the docks, does that mean just the section running past the docks, including St Andrew's Rd station and the sidings on the other side as well as the docks lines, or does it refer to the entire track from the docks to four-way junction at Filton?

[JayMac]

Capacity isn't an issue at the moment. It may be in the future with the Bristol Port Company's speculative punt on the building of a deep sea container port at Avonmouth. That would obviously vastly increase the number of freight trains using the line through Henbury. BPC are quite strongly opposed to a Henbury loop passenger service.

[grahame]

Capacity isn't an issue at the moment. It may be in the future with the Bristol Port Company's speculative punt on the building of a deep sea container port at Avonmouth. That would obviously vastly increase the number of freight trains using the line through Henbury. BPC are quite strongly opposed to a Henbury loop passenger service.

I have come across examples where capacity / paths for passenger trains which could be run on a relatively short timescale are denied because of future or very occasional other use. Happens with passenger v passenger too. Like it or not, there is a degree of competition for scarse resources - be those train or path resources - between groups and organisations all of which should be working together and all of whom really want to see the same thing in general terms - best use of rail rather than lots on the road in lorries / private cars.

I think enough time has passed / enough water under the bridge for me to quote a couple of examples - they're both from 10 years ago and suggestions made just as I got involved with this stuff.  The scenario was that the SRA^» (Strategic Rail Authority - about) (Strategic Rail Authority) wanted to squeeze costs by reducing rolling stock in the South West, and were asking what services should be run.

When I asked about consultation inputs on the TransWilts (I only got involved after the closing date), I and my friends who had been involved were told "there weren't many inputs supporting the services, and the view they should be kept was not unanimous" ... and on chasing that through, we leaned of input(s) from Frome election / council candidates suggesting that the TransWilts train be pulled, in order to provide an improved service for Frome.   And for years as we campaigned it was "but your view isn't shared by everyone".

And, I ashamed to say, the boot was on the other foot too. A consultation in from "our" end suggested keeping the TransWilts service running instead of / at the expense of local trains between Newton Abbott and Plymouth.  Not my input, but to this day I'm a bit embarrassed about the suggestion made - as it turned out, I don't think it did any harm; who's to tell whether the Frome suggestion was the final nail in our coffin at that point - but "water under the bridge" and I'm delighted to see the TransWilts unit extended to Frome to fill a gap during the day which is the positive approach we really should be taking.

Those are old stories but we want to be very careful not to repeat them.  I went to bus consultations run by Wiltshire Council in July, and the question was asked "if we cut subsidy and remove services - which should go. Should it be town services which people could walk, country services that carry few passengers, or evening and weekend services which are for leisure users".  Grouping people on table, over 4 nights, I'm afraid they got groups to support each of the three types of cut.  I hope that doesn't come back to bite us.

[TonyK]

Thank you FT,N for making sense....yet again.... of a complicated issue. You have a wonderful capacity ( no pun intended !) to see the wood for the trees, to cut through obfuscation and spin, and give clear explanations. So what are you doing in the Civil Service ??!!

Thanks chuffed. There are two answers two your question as to what I am doing in the Civil Service. The first is serving our longest ever reigning monarch by giving clear and unambiguous explanations to those of her subjects who need the rules, and the possible consequences of transgression,  explaining. The second is that they won't make me repugnant.

I didn't explain my thought of "bringing the junction back" properly. I meant extending the length of double track. In the case of Clifton, this would mean re-doubling the line to Montpelier - or even to Narroways Junction if the cash could be found. Redoubling 1^ miles of track, given the turnback at Clifton, would add hugely to the capacity of the busiest stretch of line, and as an aside give Redland and Montpelier their second platforms back. My apologies for the obfuscation and unclear explanation.

[Bmblbzzz]

All clear now, thanks. A second platform at Redland would be useful occasionally!

[Red Squirrel]

I sometimes dream of (electric) trains passing at a two-platform Montpelier... but given that NR^» (Network Rail - home page) is now properly nationalised, and that rail investment is therefore subject to that death by 1000 cuts that comes of being an 'unprotected' department and a political football to boot ( ), I can almost certainly dream on...

...to the next part of the dream, which  involves ascending in a lift from Cheltenham Road to a new station called, er, 'Cheltenham Road' (CER?) - a spiffy new replacement for Montpelier and Redland, just to the east of the Arches. Maybe if I vote Scottish Nationalist next time?

[ellendune]

Maybe if I vote Scottish Nationalist next time?

Would that be facilitated by:

a) you moving to Scotland; or
b) a Scottish Annexation of England?

[Red Squirrel]

Maybe if I vote Scottish Nationalist next time?

Would that be facilitated by:

a) you moving to Scotland; or
b) a Scottish Annexation of England?

Well I suppose it'll have to be (b) - I have an unbalanced relationship with midges; they really like me but I really hate them.

[Bmblbzzz]

Travelwest (?) are asking for consultation on the site of a new Henbury station. Two options.
http://travelwest.info/project/henbury-station

Strikes me the east option is more of a Brentry station than Henbury, but I'm not that familiar with the area.

From the linked pdf:
http://travelwest.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Henbury-leaflet.pdf

WEST option: Pedestrian access would be via the new access
road only.

EAST option: Pedestrian access would be via the new access road,
plus potentially, an additional pedestrian link to the
A4018.

Which sounds disappointingly like pedestrian access will only be from the north, ie from the new development on the site of Filton airfield, whichever option is chosen. So perhaps it's really a Cribbs Causeway station?

Would it really have been so difficult to put a footbridge over the tracks connecting to the existing housing in Filton/Southmead/Henbury/Brentry?

[grahame]

Travelwest (?)

http://travelwest.info/pages/us

Travelwest is the one-stop website for travel information in the West of England, however you like to travel.

We want to provide you with all the information you need in the simplest way ^ to help make your life easier, healthier and save you money by encouraging you to grab your bike, your trainers or to catch the bus.

We also want to keep you informed about initiatives implemented across the West of England to promote sustainable travel relating to public transport, walking, cycling, car sharing and electric vehicles as well as providing useful resources for schools, businesses and developers.

Travelwest is funded via the Local Sustainable Transport Fund provided by the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) (Department for Transport), covering the four Local Authorities comprising the West of England, Bristol, South Gloucestershire, Bath & North East Somerset and North Somerset.

[TonyK]

Tricky one. Choose the western position, you please Henbury and some of L Dub, but have the 5000 new complainers having to schlep across the main road. Choose the eastern, and the reverse happens. You can please some of the people some of the time. I'm not sure which I would go for.

The promise of a siding with a bus shelter hardly sets the pulse racing.

[JayMac]

Both. A bit further apart.

[Red Squirrel]

...5000 new complainers having to schlep across the main road...

They could use one of those level crossing arrangements - you know, the ones that allow pedestrians to cross major roads in perfect safety...

[stuving]

Would it really have been so difficult to put a footbridge over the tracks connecting to the existing housing in Filton/Southmead/Henbury/Brentry?

That would save a short detour, relative to the old station - which had no bridge, but a shorter path up to the road each side. The same was true of the other stations on the line, though Charlton (removed long before its eponymous village) does have an aqueduct.

If you want to look at that, and the evolution of this line and its neighbours, it is a good showcase for the the array of old OS^▸ (Ordnance Survey) maps that the National Library of Scotland have put on line. If you've not come across these yet, this link should go straight to Henbury. The "25 inch" ones are particularly cute - they are the ones that show a railway track as two rails at scale.

A couple of hints - if you dive in via Googling "NLS maps", you land on a catalogue without images. There's an identical-looking one with images; look for a link to it in the words. And if you select "Scotland, Ordnance Survey Maps" it will show England too - but not the full range of maps. You need to choose "England and Wales, Ordnance Survey" for some reason.