Cotswold Line journeys operated by Turbos - planned and HST substitutions

[whole diary]

[willc]

When it comes to railway ticketing in this country, surely strange is the only adequate description.

[Btline]

I changed trains at Birmingham New Street yesterday. The platform display for the 09:50 departure to London had a warning that "off-peak tickets are not valid on this service". It's due into Euston at 11:14.

If any other industry tried to get away with such an absurdity, they'd be reported, quite rightly, to the Advertising Standards Authority.

Oh, and the train itself was a 5-coach Voyager.

And that is also wrong on another level - Off Peak tickets are valid on ALL Virgin Trains services if accompanied by a valid railcard. So that notice would be WRONG even if it were for the 0730 service.

[Ollie]

Well what the screen should show then is "Off Peak Tickets not valid on this service, unless you have a railcard, and are travelling on a ticket that has been priced by Virgin Trains"

[JayMac]

And that is also wrong on another level - Off Peak tickets are valid on ALL Virgin Trains services if accompanied by a valid railcard. So that notice would be WRONG even if it were for the 0730 service.

Well what the screen should show then is "Off Peak Tickets not valid on this service, unless you have a railcard, and are travelling on a ticket that has been priced by Virgin Trains"

Doesn't apply  ...'on a ticket that has been priced by Virgin Trains' You'll certainly get short shrift on a (non-Virgin) connecting service. Or 'ALL Virgin Trains services'. Example: Holyhead to Chester is priced by ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))). Combine both your posts and you're there! 

NFM^▸ (National Fares Manual) 06 says:

Holders of 16-25, Senior, 
Disabled Persons, HM Forces   
and Family & Friends Railcards
, New Deal Photocards and     
Inter-Rail (Code 70) Cards   
travelling with Off-Peak     
tickets may use ANY Virgin   
train service, as long as the
journey being made is priced 
by Virgin Trains.

[Ollie]

And that is also wrong on another level - Off Peak tickets are valid on ALL Virgin Trains services if accompanied by a valid railcard. So that notice would be WRONG even if it were for the 0730 service.

Well what the screen should show then is "Off Peak Tickets not valid on this service, unless you have a railcard, and are travelling on a ticket that has been priced by Virgin Trains"

Doesn't apply  ...'on a ticket that has been priced by Virgin Trains' You'll certainly get short shrift on a (non-Virgin) connecting service. Or 'ALL Virgin Trains services'. Example: Holyhead to Chester is priced by ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))). Combine both your posts and you're there! 

NFM^▸ (National Fares Manual) 06 says:

Holders of 16-25, Senior, 
Disabled Persons, HM Forces   
and Family & Friends Railcards
, New Deal Photocards and     
Inter-Rail (Code 70) Cards   
travelling with Off-Peak     
tickets may use ANY Virgin   
train service, as long as the
journey being made is priced 
by Virgin Trains.

Well I was more saying my comment in relation to the train in question mentioned. You are of course correct in your quote that it has to be a Virgin Trains service too.

[Btline]

The post I was referring to was about New Street to Euston which is priced by Virgin Trains.

The train in question (an XX50) is a Virgin Trains service.

Therefore, my post was correct. Off Peak tickets are valid when accompanied with a valid railcard.

[JayMac]

Ah, but you said 'ALL' and you put it in capitals. 

[Ollie]

Exactly they may be boarding at Birmingham but doesn't mean they have come from Birmingham

[IanL]

And again today.....

15:51 London Paddington to Worcester Shrub Hill due 18:07
This train will be formed of 3 coaches instead of 8.
Last Updated: 26/07/2010 14:49

[Steve Bray]

When it is necessary to turbo-ise this service, what's to stop FGW^▸ (First Great Western) running a 2+3 turbo?
Lack of stock?
Would extra traincrew be required for this combination on the Cotswold Line?
The stations that this service calls at, can all take 5 carriages I think.

[inspector_blakey]

Not sure...I was going to suggest that it might be an issue of platform lengths, but I'm not that familiar with the calling points or their platforms (one I do know that could be an issue is Honeybourne, if that train calls there, since there is no selective door opening facility on the turbo stock and I think that platform is only around 3 cars long).

I don't know what the rules are as regards operating turbos in multiple outside DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) territory, whether there needs to be a guard on both units or not. Then again, it may simply by the given the refurbishment programme and the fact that this service runs during the evening rush hour, there simply isn't the spare turbo stock to strengthen it to 3+2.

[willc]

The Turbo only appears in the first place because they are short of a train. To provide the Turbo, the chances are they will pinch a set off a 3+2 or 3+3 combination intended for Thames Valley peak duty and they're not going to remove an entire formation at that time of the day.

More important though is that due to the three-coach platform lengths and lack of SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening) on turbos, anything over three coaches can't call at Hanborough, Shipton (westbound only) and Honeybourne unless one set is locked out of use. I'm not sure how long Pershore's platform is.

A 3+2 can run if calling Kingham, Moreton-in-Marsh and Evesham only (and perhaps Pershore), but I've only ever ridden on one once, after a hideous delay at Oxford years ago, when I think the halts set plus the three-car that had come coupled to it from London as the 16.21 from Paddington ran through to Worcester after the then 15.21 from London was cancelled at Oxford.

Hanborough and halts passengers were put in buses or taxis and I think those bound for Honeybourne were going to be sent on in taxis from Evesham. I'm pretty sure a 3+3 is just too long, except westbound at Kingham. 3+3 formations do appear occasionally after a delay/breakdown, to move a set where it is needed, but the rear set is always locked out of use in such cases.

[Steve Bray]

And today, it is the 1122 Paddington to Great Malvern which gets the Turbo treatment!

[IndustryInsider]

I'm not sure how long Pershore's platform is.

5-car length.

[gwr2006]

And today, it is the 1122 Paddington to Great Malvern which gets the Turbo treatment!

This was due to the failure this morning of the 0709 Oxford to Paddington service due to a faulty speedo in the leading power car.  The set was turned at Foxhall Jn., Didcot and ran empty to Old Oak Common.  Its diagram was then covered by a Turbo (i.e. 1122 PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-GMV, 1434 GMV-PAD).  It was hoped to find a replacement HST^▸ (High Speed Train) for the 1750 PAD-WOS^» (Worcester Shrub Hill - next trains) but not sure if this happened.