Weymouth ghost train?

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

According to my FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Network timetable, the National Rail timetable and the individual FGW .pdf timetable there is a Mon-Fri Bristol to Weymouth service departing BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains) at 0819 and BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) at 0840. This train, according to the timetables, originates at Worcester Shrub Hill at 0647.

Thing is I can't see this service on any online journey planners. And NRES^▸ (National Rail Enquiry Service) by phone couldn't find it either. Reason I ask is it is ideal for a day out in Weymouth giving an extra hour plus over the 0949 ex BRI.

Does it exist or is it an error in the printed timetables?

[devon_metro]

Apparently There is a problem with some new timetable software used in OJPs^▸ (Online Journey Planner) and TRUST^▸ (Train Running System TOPS) and all other railway systems. Most of the Summer Saturday pad pnz trains in July are showing cape. The people on the other end of the phone have the same info.

[JayMac]

I'm talking about a Mon-Fri service though, which also appears in the previous (Dec 09-May10) timetable.

[fatcontroller]

It most definately DOES exist.

[JayMac]

Thanks, fatcontroller. Off to Weymouth I go. 

Delving deeper it appears it has to exist because the return working from WEY at 1110 is listed in OJPs^▸ (Online Journey Planner).

[devon_metro]

I'm talking about a Mon-Fri service though, which also appears in the previous (Dec 09-May10) timetable.

The same problem applies with lots of errors in journey planners.

[grahame]

I'm talking about a Mon-Fri service though, which also appears in the previous (Dec 09-May10) timetable.

The same problem applies with lots of errors in journey planners.

Not a new problem ... though it may be new to this service.   I can recall conversations on a number of occasions with customers coming to our offices along the lines of ...

"there isn't a train". 
"Yes there is - it arrives at 19:11".
"No - I can only see one at 06:40 / have been told there is just one a day at 06:15 from Swindon"
"That's not the correct information - there is one at 18:45 from Swindon, 19:01 from Chippenham which you can connect into"
"But I was told by the phone enquiry service / web site"
"We live here ... we know"
"They are the train people - surely they know" [!!] "I won't risk it"

Critical last words ... if you run a service and then tell people it doesn't exist / you won't tell them about it, you're going to loose custom.    It took us six weeks to get the second half of our service reinstated into the system!

Question For the rail industry folks here.   Do you know what proportion of rail travellers check out their journeys ahead of time via the National Rail site or phone to ask?   In other words - does the absence of a train from the planners, and the misinformation about it, lead to a significant loss of business for that service?

[eightf48544]

Grahame I think you've answered your own question. With the absence of easily available printed timetables for all services, and even those that are available may be TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) specific and show only that TOCs services or like the local FGW^▸ (First Great Western) TV timetable which doesn't show the fast Oxfords to Slough, then most peolpe are going to have to rely on what they see on the web or what they are told on the phone.

Even if you send them a picture of the 18:45 From Swindon arrving at Melksham with a large clock and date visable they are still not going to believe you.

If you believe in conspiracy theories then the TOCs know exactly what they are doing, otherwise if like me you're more  a believer in cock-up theory, this is just another another case of the rail industry shooting itself in the foot. 

[grahame]

Grahame I think you've answered your own question. With the absence of easily available printed timetables for all services, and even those that are available may be TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) specific and show only that TOCs services or like the local FGW^▸ (First Great Western) TV timetable which doesn't show the fast Oxfords to Slough, then most peolpe are going to have to rely on what they see on the web or what they are told on the phone.

Even if you send them a picture of the 18:45 From Swindon arrving at Melksham with a large clock and date visable they are still not going to believe you.

I've only partially answered my own question, and I'm pretty sure that my sample is far too small to give significant results, and it's also a very biased answer in that my sample is a subset of people, selected in a way that causes false correlation (some contamination) of the results.

So ... question remains - "if there are 50 people on the 18:45 departure from Swindon to Southampton, how many of them found our about the train from National Rail enquiries?"  ... National Rail are a resource that must cost quite a bit to run, so surely someone has looked at how much of the market they're advising, and can tell us.

I totally agree with you that people will believe National Rail far more than they believe some chap they're visiting in Melksham ... even if National Rail have it wrong and he has it right!

If you believe in conspiracy theories then the TOCs know exactly what they are doing, otherwise if like me you're more  a believer in cock-up theory, this is just another another case of the rail industry shooting itself in the foot. 

And if you end up saying "yet ANOTHER case ...." perhaps you should be more seriously looking at the conspiracy theory option 

Seriously - we got the 18:45 back on National Rail after 3 to 4 weeks of it being absent, and with help from the area manager at the time at First Great Western, to whom full credit for getting it fixed.  Perhaps they can tell National Rail about that train to Weymouth!

[devon_metro]

To quote somebody on another forum:

there are currently major issues with NRs^» (Network Rail - home page) new train planning system leading to lots of missing, incorrect and even extra trains in Trust and Journeyplanners. Most LTP^▸ (Local Transport Plan) errors have I believed now been fixed in public facing conditions

Perhaps it would be worth contacting FGW^▸ (First Great Western) as they are apparently frantically trying to fix these issues!

[basset44]

Hi All,

I can not find this train on the National Rail, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) online site ( In PDF timetable) or the trainline, but if you go to DB^» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about) train http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en guess what it shows the 8.19 from BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains)

Think you might have to cross check all train journeys with DB sham you cant buy tickets

Basset

[thetrout]

One thing i've noticed a few days ago with the OJP^▸ (Online Journey Planner) was when I wanted a train from Southampton - London Victoria at 19:00 returning 10 days later

All the results appearing were suggesting taking SWT^▸ (South West Trains) to Clapham Junction, Change there onto Southern to Victoria. Which will set you back ^79.20 for a First Anytime Return (With Railcard and no Off Peak ticket available). Now I tend to always look at the OJP before travelling, and I would have paid that IF i didn't already know about the Excellent (Albeit slow) Southern Services that run DIRECT to London Victoria. However, these were not appearing in the OJP...

But if you tell the OJP that you want to go via Horsham or Havant, they do appear But thats not the frustrating part. How many people would be thoroughly cheesed off if they paid ^79.20 and then found out they could get a direct train to Victoria and purchase a Southern Only First Class Off Peak Period Return for ^27.70 (With Railcard) Now I personally think that is outragous. I for one would much rather sit on a Southern Service Stopper than change at Clapham Junction. and just to add further contrast... Southern don't offer a First Class Anytime Period Return, but the cost of 2 First Anytime Day Singles at ^22.75 (With Railcard) still only comes to ^45.50... Which is a considerable saving.

Also i'll just point out that with Southern you get a Free Drink on your journey any time of day, wheres SWT only offer this on the morning peak services into London!

[Brucey]

But if you tell the OJP^▸ (Online Journey Planner) that you want to go via Horsham or Havant, they do appear But thats not the frustrating part. How many people would be thoroughly cheesed off if they paid ^79.20 and then found out they could get a direct train to Victoria and purchase a Southern Only First Class Off Peak Period Return for ^27.70 (With Railcard) Now I personally think that is outragous. I for one would much rather sit on a Southern Service Stopper than change at Clapham Junction. and just to add further contrast... Southern don't offer a First Class Anytime Period Return, but the cost of 2 First Anytime Day Singles at ^22.75 (With Railcard) still only comes to ^45.50... Which is a considerable saving.

Also worth pointing out that in Standard, SWT^▸ (South West Trains) don't offer any advance fares on this route (except for Megatrain) whereas Southern's service has standard advance tickets from ^2 each way.  These ^2 tickets just don't show up if you specify London as a destination on the NRE^‡(resolve) website (you have to go onto a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s site to find these tickets).

[JayMac]

Didn't go Weymouth in the end. Nearly forgot that I had an interview to attend. It was only seeing my suit hanging on the door that reminded me.......

I called FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Customer Services this morning to check on the 0840 ex BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) on Monday. Advisor checked with Control and was told that it wasn't running due to a 'planned cancelation' ( huh?).

Just got in from interview to find an answerphone message from same advisor telling me that the info she gave me this morning was wrong and the 0840 ex BRI is running as per printed timetable!

[inspector_blakey]

Hi All,

I can not find this train on the National Rail, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) online site ( In PDF timetable) or the trainline, but if you go to DB^» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about) train http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en guess what it shows the 8.19 from BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains)

Think you might have to cross check all train journeys with DB sham you cant buy tickets

Basset

I would use the DB journey planner with care, especially at weekends. Superficially it's excellent, but for UK^▸ (United Kingdom) rail journeys it didn't used to include timetable alterations for engineering work. So although you might get a nice detailed screen full of results, for weekends they were often completely wrong. I don't know if this is still the case, but be a bit careful with the DB journey planner!