Class 180 Adelantes - discussions, including their return to FGW

[whole diary]

[anthony215]

I do admit it is a good magazine, i liked the bit they had on the proposals to wire the valley lines.

I know there are a few who dislike it, but i find it goes more in depth compared the other railway magazines which are available.

[Btline]

Good. I hope it is just Turbos that are replaced, and not HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) (unless there are enough).

Hopefully some Oxford fasts can be moved over.

Surely the only reason OXF^» (Oxford - next trains) - PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) is timetabled 1 hr is because of the risk of a Turbo turning up. A 180 can do it in 50 minutes. After Reading and electrfication, hopefully it will be 45 minutes all day.

[IndustryInsider]

An announcement and subsequent staff (re)training will have to come soon if a December deadline can be achieved.

[JayMac]

I've heard rumour that Northern haven't looked after the 180s they've been using particularly well. So FGW^▸ (First Great Western) may need a bit of time to get them ship-shape and fit for inter-city travel again.

[Richard Fairhurst]

Funnily enough on the Northern Rail equivalent of this forum, there's a Northern driver claiming exactly the opposite - that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) didn't look after them, and that several reliability mods have been made at Northern's instigation.

Though given the average state of a Northern Pacer I think I know who I believe.

[Timmer]

I travelled on a couple of Northern 158s a few weeks back and if the state of them is anything to go by then FGW^▸ (First Great Western) may need to spend some money on the 180s bringing them back to a decent standard.

158s are great units and Northern have let them go so much so that the carpet on one unit I was on had completely worn out leaving just the plastic backing. The engines didn't sound that great either sounding a bit rough. Made me appreciate the work that FGW had done on their fleet of 158s.

[inspector_blakey]

I have limited experience of travelling on Northern, but I think I'd tend to agree that they may have let the 180s go a little. The fairly new Siemens electric units used on the Aire Valley line (class 333) were pretty smart, but all the ex-BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) I used were looking pretty decrepit, not to mention grubby as well.

[Btline]

I suppose it'll be payback when the 150s go to Northern from LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise). The 150s are in a horrendous condition - they are clapped out!

[ChrisB]

My opinion hasn't changed. 'nuff said.

At the Charlbury launch of Redoubling stage #1, Mark was heard to say that they may well be deployed on a shoulder-peak service or so, but not exclusively, that there would still be turbos on the Cotswold Line off-peak, and he said don't be surprised if one gets to Henley....

[IndustryInsider]

there would still be turbos on the Cotswold Line off-peak

More than ever probably, given the extra services twixt Moreton and Paddington.

[willc]

If you retain all the existing HST^▸ (High Speed Train) services on the Cotswold Line, you don't actually need all that many 180s to replace most of the Turbo duties out to Worcester and Malvern, where there is surely the most pressing need for something better than a Turbo. So long as they are not crush-loaded, 16Xs are tolerable between Moreton and London, especially if an extra set is added south of Oxford.

Someone else will know about the diagramming but casual observation suggests that several Cotswold diagrams are self-contined through the day

Assuming you were able to turn out four 180s per day from five, then you could have one each for the 05.48 and 06.48 from London, with the other pair reverting to their old peak job of being a 560-seat queue-buster on the 07.31 from Oxford/07.15 from Charlbury, splitting them in Paddington then offers a set for the 09.21, in between two Hereford HSTs, with the other then going spare or doing the 09.50 to Moreton.

The first set out to Worcester is then back at Paddington by 11am to pick up the 11.21, the set from the 09.21 to Worcester would be back to pick up the 14.21 of Paddington and then you're into HST-time after that.

Since the afternoon peak and evening services from London on to the Cotswold Line are HSTs, you could indeed send a 180 or two to Henley/Banbury, etc in that period.

[IndustryInsider]

Assuming you were able to turn out four 180s per day from five

That's the problem with a small fleet of five, I think asking for 80% availablilty from one of the least reliable fleets is asking for trouble on a regular basis, but just having three diagrams (60% availability) would hardly be an effective use of resources.  I think, but don't quote me, that there were 10 daily diagrams when there was a fleet of 14 units, just over 70% - that seemed to work OK most of the time.

I suppose you could have a lesser used diagram that is HST^▸ (High Speed Train)/180 swappable to cope with a shortfall of one type or the other, or perhaps have an agreement with Hull Trains' sets to pool resources for both TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s from a larger fleet.  Otherwise I feel a 'this train will be formed of 3 carriages vice 5' message on the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) service disruption page would be a commom theme.

[ChrisB]

I asked Mark Hopwood outright if they were likely to put most of the 180s onto the Cotswold Line, and I definitely got a negative. He thinks other services are just as in need

[Btline]

I think Willc's idea is best. I fail to see why they are "just as in need" elsewhere. They offer no capacity improvements over a Turbo, so surely the priority should be to replace Turbos on lightly loaded, long distance trains that use 125 mph track? What else, other than the Cotswold, has a long distance Turbo clogging up the fast lines?

If the fleet is unreliable, use 3 diagrams - three is better than none. Or put 4 or 5 out, and have substitutions when they're knackered- at least they'll be a general reduction in Turbos!

I hope FGW^▸ (First Great Western) see sense. Are they definitely coming? Or are we still jumping the gun...

[willc]

They offer no capacity improvements over a Turbo

As I keep having to say here, year after year, yes they do - 280 proper human-sized seats, not 275 (3-car 165) or about 250 (166) for people whose arms magically disappear when they step through the door of a Turbo.

What else, other than the Cotswold, has a long distance Turbo clogging up the fast lines?

Newbury trains. And the Turbos are hardly clogging up the fast lines, given the leisurely schedules east of Reading these days.

Decision on what to do with them may be September.