Class 180 Adelantes - discussions, including their return to FGW

[whole diary]

[northwesterntrains]

The Preston 185 coupling is rather enforced by the lack of capacity through to Manchester, I suspect if they had the paths they would be tempted to run separately.

The 185 coupling is more to do with passenger capacity than pathing capacity.  There are sufficient paths for at least 2 TPE^▸ (Trans Pennine Express) and 2 Northern services on Manchester-Preston every hour all day, with Northern's hourly Manchester Airport-Southport service also serving Bolton.  The problem is a service departing Manchester towards Bolton at, for instance 17:15, has over 300 passengers wanting to board at the two Manchester stops so a single 185 cannot possibly cope.  TPE use the doubling up to their advantage and have the service going to both Barrow and Edinburgh which is to the advantage of long distance travellers as well as local commuters.

[northwesterntrains]

180103 has been sent to Woverton for major repairs after an accident at Newton Heath. 

180108 appeared to catch fire last night while working the 19:20 Blackpool to Manchester.  At this rate there won't be any 180s in operation that can go to FGW^▸ (First Great Western).

[JayMac]

Any corroboration of that rumour about 180108 northwesterntrains?

I've not found any information stating categorically that it was a fire.

[northwesterntrains]

Any corroboration of that rumour about 180108 northwesterntrains?

I've not found any information stating categorically that it was a fire.

I did say appeared to catch fire.  There are reports of a lot of black smoke coming out of it and the fire brigade were called.

[inspector_blakey]

Would you like to tell us what source you got that from, then? Or provide a link, perhaps?

[ChrisB]

Perhaps he's a staff member up north, just as we have FGW^▸ (First Great Western) staffers here. You don't ask them for links/proof.

[inspector_blakey]

I'm not necessarily demanding proof, but it's very easy to propagate unsubstantiated internet gossip so I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to ask for an indication of where such "reports" came from...

[Chris from Nailsea]

Erm ... while I hesitate to quote another forum here, there is a discussion on http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=41696 which provides some useful information on this particular incident.

CfN 

[northwesterntrains]

Two of Northern's 180s remain out-of-service.  It is believed Northern are subleasing 150285 off ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) to help cover the shortage and that it'll be sent up tonight coupled to the unit running the 19:52 Cardiff Central to Manchester service 1W37 CF333 2.

[IndustryInsider]

Management murmurings that all is not well with the Adelante's proposed return to FGW^▸ (First Great Western).  I've heard talk that the deal may well fall through - connected with the cost of retraining/lease and the likelihood of the franchise being given up three years early as discussed on here.

I hope it's not true, but if it is then it kinda makes the release given for the Dispatches documentary sound rather hollow:

On overcrowding:
Since the beginning of our franchise we've invested in rolling stock and significantly increased capacity on many of our routes. However, with more and more customers choosing to use our services it is difficult for us to keep up with demand.

In the past 18 months, six out of the 10 train operators in the London and South East area have had injections of rolling stock, but this does not include First Great Western, so it is not surprising that they have seen recent improvements. The 200 new carriages the Department for Transport originally planned to deliver to three rail franchises - including First Great Western - would have made a real difference for our customers, but this was put on hold early last year prior to the Comprehensive Spending Review.

We absolutely understand the constraints the current economic climate brings for government, but we also recognise there is a real need to improve capacity in key areas of our network. We have recently put forward a series of innovative proposals to the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) to help manage the increase in the number of customers we're carrying. We hope the DfT will adopt these as part of its next allocation of additional trains, and our talks with them are continuing.

So, that would be a potential 25 additional carriages spurned, preventing Turbo's being used to provide some kind of relief to the chronic overcrowding on the suburban routes out of Paddington.  Even shoulder-peak services are feeling the strain now, with the 3-car 16:27 Paddington to Oxford having its West Drayton stop removed last timetable change due to their simply not being enough room on board.  Something has to be done before Crossrail/GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrification arrives.

[ChrisB]

Don't agree with the tone - if it doesn't make commercial sense, then you can't expect much. Either you privatise and then do sensible deals - or you don't.

[paul7575]

Update on this, there was a 11th April OJEU tender notification from FGW^▸ (First Great Western):

http://www.publictenders.net/tender/100424

Includes:

The refresh and/or conversion of high speed rolling stock. This shall include some or all of the following:

a. class 180 high speed rolling stock refresh and exterior paint - up to 6 units (30 vehicles), 
b. HST^▸ (High Speed Train) Mk3 TRFB^▸ (Trailer Restaurant First Buffet (Mark 3 coach type)) conversion to HST TSHD vehicle refresh - up to 17 vehicles,
c. TSO^▸ (The Stationary Office (now OPSI)) loco hauled Mk3 Conversion to HST TSHD vehicle refresh,
d. HST TGS Mk3 conversion to HST TSHD vehicle refresh - up to 3 vehicles

Looks like a few HST formation tweaks might be in the wind as well...

Paul

[IndustryInsider]

Hmmmm, interesting...   

[ChrisB]

Is this an indication that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) will be taking their 3 year franchise extension?

Seems to me they'd want some use out of them....

[JayMac]

b. HST^▸ (High Speed Train) Mk3 TRFB^▸ (Trailer Restaurant First Buffet (Mark 3 coach type)) conversion to HST TSHD vehicle refresh - up to 17 vehicles,

That's an interesting one. Converting restaurant/buffet cars to Standard Class High Density seated coaches. What about the windows?