Class 180 Adelantes - discussions, including their return to FGW

[whole diary]

[brompton rail]

Given that there is little likelihood that fGW will take the 180s anyway, there is even less chance of them being operated a route that doesn't return them to Old Oak Common on a regular basis. Well that is my 2p worth!

[IndustryInsider]

Given that there is little likelihood that fGW will take the 180s anyway...

The latest RAIL magazine reporting (page 13) that 5 of the fleet now not required by East Coast may be returning to FGW^▸ (First Great Western).  It 'undestands' they'll be used on Paddington-Oxford/Cotswold Line trains.  There'll probably be some more information in the next edition which promises an article about Mark Hopwood.

[ChrisB]

Hmmm - they've been reading the newsgroups too, I see.

[anthony215]

One current rumour circulating is the 5x180s are to go to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to displace 5x165s to Cardiff-Portsmouth (subject to route clearance.)  However, if that happens FGW will be expected to forfeit 4x158s to East Midlands Trains but that will leave FGW with a net gain of 7 carriages.

I am not sure if i would be too happy about this if it is true. I would have thought FGW would have to have a class 166 rather than a class 165 because of their top speed which is 90 mph rather than the class 165's which is 75mph.


If  i have to travel from Cardiff to Portsmouth i would prefer to travel on a class 158 rather than a class 165/166 as the seats are much better.

Anyway dont they have a shortage of stock around the thames valley area?

[ChrisB]

I will check this with FGW^▸ (First Great Western) management tonight at a Customer Panel Meeting. I'm getting fed up with rumours.....

[northwesterntrains]

I would have thought FGW^▸ (First Great Western) would have to have a class 166 rather than a class 165 because of their top speed which is 90 mph rather than the class 165's which is 75mph.

I thought all the FGW Turbos were 90mph.  The 165/0s are 75mph, while the 165/1s and 166s are 90mph.

Anyway dont they have a shortage of stock around the thames valley area?

If Turbos replace the 158s and 180s replace Turbos on Paddington routes then it will be the Paddington routes that benefit.

[northwesterntrains]

I will check this with FGW^▸ (First Great Western) management tonight at a Customer Panel Meeting. I'm getting fed up with rumours.....

Usually the reason for rumours is the lack of an official announcement and the official annoucement doesn't come until the operator confirms that they will take on the units, if it's one option they're exploring it usually is rumour only.

[ChrisB]

Anyway dont they have a shortage of stock around the thames valley area?

If Turbos replace the 158s and 180s replace Turbos on Paddington routes then it will be the Paddington routes that benefit.

Not by many seats though, unless the turbos remain. a 5car Adelante has the same number of seats as a 3car turbo. One reason FGW^▸ (First Great Western) let them go. The leasing charges were higher than a turbo with no increase in seats.

[northwesterntrains]

Not by many seats though, unless the turbos remain. a 5car Adelante has the same number of seats as a 3car turbo. One reason FGW^▸ (First Great Western) let them go. The leasing charges were higher than a turbo with no increase in seats.

Well it is currently 280 or 286 total on a 3 car Turbo and 287 total on a 180.  However, the 180s could do with being refurbished and if part of the first class seating is converted to standard (like with what TPE^▸ (Trans Pennine Express) did with the 170s) and the buffet is replaced by seating (like what XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) have done with the Voyagers) then it could finish up being around 50 extra seats as well as loads of extra standing room.

2+2 seating does also have the advantage of a very large person doesn't finish up leaving an adjoining seat unoccupiable.

[ChrisB]

Where's the money to refurbish coming from?.....

If FGW^▸ (First Great Western) take them, they'll be as is, I reckon.

[IndustryInsider]

I will check this with FGW^▸ (First Great Western) management tonight at a Customer Panel Meeting. I'm getting fed up with rumours.....

Please do.  We'd all like to know the official story!

Seating wise, the 180's actually compare worse in regard to standard class seats (which after all is the important figure).  FGW 165's have 270 standard class seats, the 166's have 243, and the 180's a mere 226 - although there are an additional 16 'seats' if you count the tip-up ones by most of the doors.

[Mookiemoo]

I think thats unfair though - because the 165/166 count the middle of the set of three which with most 21st century normal sized people are often unusable

[ChrisB]

with most 21st century normal sized people are often unusable

Because a lot of 21stC people are overweight....

[inspector_blakey]

Not necessarily...I'm 6'1" and just under 13 stone, so not exactly overweight (bordering on skinny actually) but the width of my shoulders is such that I take up more than my fair share of a Turbo seat. And there are plenty of people out there much bigger than I am!

I will check this with FGW^▸ (First Great Western) management tonight at a Customer Panel Meeting. I'm getting fed up with rumours.....

Agree entirely - the trickle of scarcely credible, unsourced internet hearsay from some posters in this thread is rapidly becoming tedious.  People - all you have to do is say where you got your information from! Then we can figure out for ourselves whether or not it's believable... Not a big ask, is it?

[vacman]

When the origional rumour of 165's going west was mooted, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) were planning to refurb them with 2+2 seating for CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains)-PMH, and yes all the FGW 16x units are 90MPH.