Chippenham - facilities, improvements, parking, events and incidents - merged posts

[whole diary]

[John R]

Unfortunately the railway geography is always going to mean that journeys like Chippenham northwards are going to be relatively slow.

With a half hour service to BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains), and a half hourly service north from BRI, the issue you raised is the relatively long connection time of around 20 mins.  In reality, are you really going to try and rejig two major timetables, to suit the needs of CPM^» (Chippenham - next trains)? And if you did, what would your optimal connection time be, that doesn't start to run the risk of a late train resulting in the connection being missed, particularly for mobility impaired customers?

Putting in the journey I get typical fastest hourly services of 2:07 southbound and 2:13 northbound after the current engineering work.  Still not great, but not quite as bleak as you paint. Also, the AA is showing a fastest route of 105 miles and 1 hr 58 mins, which is probably a better comparator than the 70 miles as the crow flies.

[grahame]

So, how do youbpropose to speed it up, getting good value, from the current rail network? Bearing in mind current service usage and using vacant paths?

The list that the thread started with is concerns from passengers and potential passengers spoken to / read in the press or online / heard on the radio from Chippenham.  The answer / comment to them may well be "look - there's no lines in the right places to take you more directly any longer".     Yet I do wonder where we would be if history had been a bit different and Virgin Cross Country had established their Swindon - Stroud - Cheltenham Spa - Birmingham New Street service, or if Bristol to Oxford via Didcot West Curve still ran.

[ChrisB]

There's good reason neither do. The Usergroup might consider whether there is a business case to somehow improve either route to enable a viable case, and then find the rolling stock to be able to do so.

I suspect the answer won't take many hours deliberation

[grahame]

There's good reason neither do.

Hmmm ... the decisions against those services were made between 10 and 15 years ago.  I could give you a couple of other negative decisions from around that time that have been reversed since, and been successful.

[ChrisB]

Stock required for XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) to be able to run the first , paths required to run the second. Still both valid problems, methinks

[John R]

Maybe not the second, given the many lumbering coal trains to Didcot no longer run.  And certainly would not have been if electrification to Bristol and Oxford had been completed, as 110mph emus would mean pathing  would be easy.

[grahame]

Event flyer at http://atrebatia.info/chrug_launch.pdf

Chippenham Station is used by thousands of rail passengers every week - but there is not ... yet ... an established group through which passengers can talk with the train operator. TransWilts (Swindon to Westbury) is a recently designated service and Chippenham Station comes within its remit. There are user groups at most stations in Wiltshire, with the exception of Chippenham and Pewsey The purpose of holding an "inaugural meeting" in September is to see if one should be setup, if there are people to do so, and what shape it would take.

Rail user and station friends groups cover the majority of UK^▸ (United Kingdom) stations. They differ widely from group to group, but all provide a way for local rail users (and potential rail users) to get together, to talk with the train operator, and to learn more about what's going on. Many provide opportunities to get involved in volunteer activities and take a pride in their station too. They are generally regarded as positive by the train operators, who get co-ordinated inputs and suggestions they might not have thought of (after all, GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) have 210 stations to look after), and by the passengers who end up being better informed locally.


At TransWilts, most of the work is voluntary (over and above the call of paid duty!) - we're a community organisation with very close links to both the train operators and council; our suggestions have helped get improvements for local conditions, and our volunteer team has helped in many ways, including marketing and surveys - helping us keep the trial service from Chippenham to Westbury - and understand the detail of why it’s working and how it should progress in the future. That's good for users and operators alike.

Some issues that you may want to give us your views on include:
• Only two trains per day to Salisbury and Southampton
• Proposals for development around the station
• Installation of ticket gates
• No late evening services from Bristol, Bath or Westbury
• Peak fares to London
• Connections for journeys to Midlands and the North
• Electrification and new trains
• Pick up and bus access only available via Station Hill
• Planned 40% increase in car parking
• Low cost fares and best routes
• Leisure fares and destinations

Come along and see how you may be able to make a difference!

[IndustryInsider]

Stock required for XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) to be able to run the first , paths required to run the second. Still both valid problems, methinks

Maybe not the second, given the many lumbering coal trains to Didcot no longer run.  And certainly would not have been if electrification to Bristol and Oxford had been completed, as 110mph emus would mean pathing  would be easy.

Looking at the map Graham posted it struck me how pleasing the arc created by running a long distance regional route from Bristol via Bath to Swindon, Oxford and Milton Keynes/Bedford and (eventually) Cambridge looks.  I still think there would be great merit in East-West Rail (or XC) running that service rather than running their trains just to Didcot or Reading.  So many markets would be much better served as a result, both shorter and longer distance, and even without electrification I'm sure paths for 100mph DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit), or even better Bi-Mode's at 125mph, could be found west of Didcot.

[ChrisB]

Once EWR^▸ (East West Railway (Oxford to Bedford), or possibly East Worthing station, depending on context) is open, yes, then I think a ross country service is very likely. 110mph needed dor the DID^▸ (Didcot Parkway)-SWI^» (Swindon - next trains) section at least.

Not sure whether EWR is still getting the wires. Even better if its still in the project as electric trains ciuld be used once GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) electrification is completed as currently projected and will allow a BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains)/CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains) - Milton Keynes and eventually Cambridge.

But I think patience is required for the works/lines to be completed

[John R]

Sadly DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) recently stated that EWR^▸ (East West Railway (Oxford to Bedford), or possibly East Worthing station, depending on context) will not be electrified. A real shame, as it must be so much cheaper to do it at outset.

[Adelante_CCT]

I agree, I think it would be better for EWR^▸ (East West Railway (Oxford to Bedford), or possibly East Worthing station, depending on context) to head West rather than East from Didcot, if the plan was to go further South than Oxford. Besides, Network Rail have stated a plan to have an extra hourly XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) service from Basingstoke to Manchester via EW, assuming this called at Milton Keynes then that should suppress any demand for those heading to/from Reading.

[froome]

I've only just seen this thread. Referring to the discussion earlier on about connections from Chippenham to Birmingham and the north, why do most of the trains from Swindon to Stroud and Gloucester appear to leave Swindon just a couple of minutes before the train from Bath Spa and Chippenham arrives in Swindon (and onto an adjacent platform)? It makes what should be a short journey from Bath or Chippenham to Stroud into a long journey because of the frustrating wait. As it happens, I had hoped to do a journey up through Birmingham from Bath tomorrow avoiding the diversion around Bristol Parkway by going via Swindon instead, but it doesn't even appear to be a permissable route, despite being the shortest (instead I will be travelling via Reading and then back through Oxford, which seems ridiculous to me).

[grahame]

I've only just seen this thread. Referring to the discussion earlier on about connections from Chippenham to Birmingham and the north, why do most of the trains from Swindon to Stroud and Gloucester appear to leave Swindon just a couple of minutes before the train from Bath Spa and Chippenham arrives in Swindon (and onto an adjacent platform)? It makes what should be a short journey from Bath or Chippenham to Stroud into a long journey because of the frustrating wait. As it happens, I had hoped to do a journey up through Birmingham from Bath tomorrow avoiding the diversion around Bristol Parkway by going via Swindon instead, but it doesn't even appear to be a permissable route, despite being the shortest (instead I will be travelling via Reading and then back through Oxford, which seems ridiculous to me).

There are some weird and wonderful things on permitted routes from Chippenham, Melksham and Trowbridge to the Midlands and North.  I would need to check my facts before I post for definite, but as I recall, journeys to Cheltenham Spa have a wider range of routings allowed than journeys via Cheltenham Spa.

Much of the history of connections up the Golden Valley is a hark back to the days when the line was single from Swindon to Kemble - worth adding that to the "connections to be considered" list, I think.

[ChrisB]

Besides, Network Rail have stated a plan to have an extra hourly XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) service from Basingstoke to Manchester via EW, assuming this called at Milton Keynes then that should suppress any demand for those heading to/from Reading.

It wouldn't be NR^» (Network Rail - home page), as they don't plan services, they run the infrastructure.
My understanding of this however, and it's XC suggesting it, is to run one of the two services from Reading from Oxford up the EWR^▸ (East West Railway (Oxford to Bedford), or possibly East Worthing station, depending on context) to the West Coast and onto Birmingham. I would expect the service that runs direct from Leamington to Birmingham. Thus both their hourly services serve Birmingham airport.

I've only just seen this thread. Referring to the discussion earlier on about connections from Chippenham to Birmingham and the north, why do most of the trains from Swindon to Stroud and Gloucester appear to leave Swindon just a couple of minutes before the train from Bath Spa and Chippenham arrives in Swindon (and onto an adjacent platform)? It makes what should be a short journey from Bath or Chippenham to Stroud into a long journey because of the frustrating wait. As it happens, I had hoped to do a journey up through Birmingham from Bath tomorrow avoiding the diversion around Bristol Parkway by going via Swindon instead, but it doesn't even appear to be a permissable route, despite being the shortest (instead I will be travelling via Reading and then back through Oxford, which seems ridiculous to me).

How many trains pass through Swindon each hour? How do you suggest the STroud train connects with all of these trains? How do you choose which ones it will connect with? The strength of the flow will definitely be one - and I suspect those coming from PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) far exceed those from Chippenham & Bath.

I understood that the shortest journey between any two stations was *always* a permitted route. Are you sure that this is?

[grahame]

I understood that the shortest journey between any two stations was *always* a permitted route. Are you sure that this is?

Only on an "any permitted" ticket.

The shortest route from Swindon to Cheltenham Spa using railway lines with regular passenger trains on them is Swindon - Kemble - Stroud - Stonehouse - Cheltenham Spa.   The problem with using that for routing is that all the trains from Stonehouse run via Gloucester where they reverse before carrying on to Cheltenham Spa.   There's a routing easement that we talked about quite recently in relation to allowing travel via Westbury rather than via the shorter Westbury avoider - perhaps there is (or should be?) similar for Gloucester?

I understand, by the way, that Trowbridge to Cheltenham Spa is slightly shorter via Bristol Temple Meads than via Swindon - shorter (even) would be via the Rhubarb loop.  As "through trains are always allowed" on any permitted, this is why Trowbridge to Cheltenham via Swindon is fine, but Trowbridge to Birmingham via Swindon and Cheltenham is not.