South Wales local services - Pembroke, Fishguard, Swanline, etc.

[whole diary]

[anthony215]

Havnt had a chance to sample the extra fishguard services although providing i get paid on time this week i am hoping to a week saturday travel to carmarthen and buy a west wales day ranger.

Also just found this on flickr:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37260/6155714287/in/photostream/

2 other 67's are supposed to being done as well. Strange as i havent heard of ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) doing a training for staff on the class 67's & DVT^‡(resolve), since they dropped the plan to do so after the closure of WSMR^▸ (Wrexham, Shropshire and Marylebone Railway) back in january

[Jez]

Correct.   13 01 arrival works 17 10 Swansea to Cardiff.   This is to enable the 150 sitting at Swansea off 09 22 arrival to move to Cardiff for 15 14 Cardiff to Fishguard Harbour.
Rather than dwell only on individual Unit workings, doew anybody know anything about Fishguard passenger loadings

So 2 ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) units stay in Swansea doing nothing for several hours - from 0922 until 13.10 for one unit and 1301 until 17.10 for another?

[anthony215]

Yes & no.

From what i have been told the diagram is like:

05:45 Carmarthen - Pembroke Dock (Arr 07:04)
07:09 Pembroke Dock - Swansea (Arr 09:22)
13:10 Swansea - Cardiff Central (Arr 14:15)
15:14 Cardiff Central - Fishguard Harbour (Arr 18:34)
 Then shuttles between Fishgaurd & Claberston Road/Carmarthen etc

Then other diagram looks to be:

05:19 Shrewsbury - Swansea (Arr 09:08)
09:11 Swansea - Cardiff Central (Arr 10:17)
11:14 Cardiff Central - Swansea (Arr 12:19)
13:15 Swansea - Shrewsbury (Arr 17:10)
18:05 Shrewsbury -Swansea (Arr 22:10)

Not sure what the stock does, think it should work the 22:30 Swansea - Cardiff Swanline although this could change

Diagrams are booked for class 150 or a 153 .

[Jez]

The other diagrams  involved in Swanline/HOW must be;

Overnight Fishguard Harbour
0436 Swansea-Shrewsbury (arrives 08xx)
09xx Shrewsbury- Swansea (arrives 13xx)
17.10 Swansea-Cardiff (arrives 1820)

Im guessing this one is a 153.

And

0914 Cardiff-Swansea
1110 Swansea-Cardiff
1314 Cardiff-Swansea
1510 Swansea-Cardiff (arrives 16xx)

This is usually a 150.

Have the 2 150s that were being used on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Taunton services now back with ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)))? I ask because the other day I spotted a pacer on a Taunton service when normally they are Sprinters.

[anthony215]

I know ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) have at least 1 of the class 150's back from FGW^▸ (First Great Western). ATW are also have another class 150 away at Northern, think is 150282 and word is on wnxx that 1 of the engines has packed up.

It seems someone in the WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) is really pushing ATW to get the class 67's & MK3 for WAG2 urgently. 67003 is already being painted into ATW blue and there is a pic on flickr:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37260/6155714287/

Dont know if any MK3's are ready, perhaps a case of  borrowing one of the sets chiltern has? (Not the 1's with mainline branding that mix & match set i am thinking of)

As for the units  on the diagrams for the swanline service etc i suspect that this will vary day by day.

[paul7575]

Dont know if any MK3's are ready, perhaps a case of  borrowing one of the sets chiltern has? (Not the 1's with mainline branding that mix & match set i am thinking of)

Chiltern's fleet is all spoken for, it is all needed for the all day Birmingham service when the Oxford route opens, hopefully in 2013. In the interim period it means they have enough to allow for complete sets of stock to be away at Doncaster for overhaul and fitting of power doors.

I don't think you'll see any in use on the WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) express...

[Rhydgaled]

It seems someone in the WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) is really pushing ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) to get the class 67's & MK3 for WAG2 urgently. 67003 is already being painted into ATW blue and there is a pic on flickr:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37260/6155714287/

It looks blue, as in BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) blue. Is that just a trick of the light or is it not the same blue-ish dark turquoise used on the refurbished 158s and the WAG express 57s?

The other diagrams  involved in Swanline/HOW must be;

Overnight Fishguard Harbour
0436 Swansea-Shrewsbury (arrives 08xx)
09xx Shrewsbury- Swansea (arrives 13xx)
17.10 Swansea-Cardiff (arrives 1820)

How can I prove that there will always be a unit sitting at Swansea from 13:04 to 17:10? If I can do that, the Welsh Assembly were lying to me that the 5hr gap at Fishguard couldn't be plugged without dropping one of the other services. You could do this:

13:14 Swansea - Shrewsbury HOWL service departs as two units in multiple
13:31 split at Llanelli, one unit continues to HOWL the other to Fishguard (Fishguard arrival 14:58)
15:21 Fishguard - Cardiff Central (arrive Swansea around 17:05, Depart 17:10, arrive Cardiff 18:20)

[Hafren]

How can I prove that there will always be a unit sitting at Swansea from 13:04 to 17:10? If I can do that, the Welsh Assembly were lying to me that the 5hr gap at Fishguard couldn't be plugged without dropping one of the other services. You could do this:

Isn't that just because the funding wouldn't stretch to another journey, the decision having been made to provide a timetable that focusses on the expected peaks? Perhaps that has been done to maximise revenue, and if things go well they might make use of these units sat at Swansea to fill the gaps in the future. If someone decides to fund it, so probably not for some time.

[phile]

Agree.   It costs money to run a train and whether units (150 from 09 22) and 153 (from 13 02) sit at Swansea or not is therefore irrelevant.     If the gap could be filled by juggling Units around all well and good but as I have already explained there is nothing available at that time in the late afternoon.   

[Rhydgaled]

Funding or no funding, the fact is that was not the reason given to me twice by WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about). The first time was in their reply to my responce to the consulation and the second time came via Pembrokeshire County Council when I wrote to them about the issue and Fishguard & Goodwick station. Both responces claimed that by running a service in the gap you would loose the ability to run an evening train into Fishguard.

Unless we're wrong that a unit is sitting at Swansea between 13:04 and 17:10 that is not the case and the gap could be plugged without affecting the other services. Therefore, despite what WAG have been saying, I think you are right and funding is the issue. It then comes down to the details of what was promissed back when the extra trains where anounce and of the contract with ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))).

The anouncement was that 5 extra trains each way between Fishguard and Carmarthen would be funded. The fact is that one of the extra trains into Fishguard has no connection from east of Clarbeston Road, and hence WAG owe Fishguard 1 more extra inbound service. Also, there are effectively only 3 extra arrivals into Fishguard, as the first two are essentially ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) moves. Now, this is where the details of the contract come in. Would it allow WAG to specify that they are funding the following services, and leave ATW to choose betweening paying for the necessary positioning workings to run those services or paying for a car to transport staff to allow overnight stabling at Fishguard Harbour?:

• 06:53 Fishguard Harbour - Clarbeston Road
• 08:04 Fishguard - Carmarthen (it was an existing service after that point anyway)
• 08:45 Carmarthen - Fishguard Harbour (was an existing service east of Carmarthen)
• 09:56 Fishguard Harbour - Carmarthen
• 13:14 Swansea - Fishguard
• 15:21 Fishguard - Swansea
• 16:40 Swansea - Fishguard Harbour (the Cardiff - Swansea section was existing anyway)
• 19:00 Fishguard Harbour - Clarbeston Road
• 20:05 Clarbeston Road - Fishguard Harbour

Note however that I have only listed 9 services there for funding, 5 out 4 in, which is within the 5 services each way orriginally promised. As I said, it'd be up to Arriva whether they want to run the un-funded 05:50 CMN-FGH and 20:50 FGH - CMN trips at all or pay to transport the driver and guard by car to and from FGH where the unit could stay the night. The contract might not allow for that, so there could still be the funding issue, but the first step is debunking the myth (assuming I'm correct in thinking it is one) that there isn't the stock to plug the gap without messing up something else.

From what I've heard from a certain poster on another fourm Arriva have been gaining significantlly from the two WAG expresses. The WAG are apparently having to pay twice for the lease of the 175, and the subsidy figures for both services are such that I'd guess they practically equal the running cost of the service. Then, so I'm told, ATW keep all the fare revenue from both trains. Therefore they should be gaining enough from the WAG express to pay for the required positioning moves here in Fishguard and get the taxpayer better value for money on the extra Fishguard trains.

[matt473]

Given the fact that running services have a small marginal cost as the stock, staff, infrastucture etc. are already paid for it costs very little in comparison to run extra services so may as well run in service if it's standing about. However it is possible that they may be waiting as spares for during the day incase of problems so that it can be summoned if needs be as we know regularly happens with stock stabled at Temple Meads during the day. Myabe the back up unit is stabled in Swansea instead of Canton as the diagrams just work that way. Maybe someone can find out if it is official spare just incase? If it isn't then worth pushing for using it from December instead of standing about

[anthony215]

The 17 37 departure from cardiff Central to Milford  was formed of a 3 carriage class 175, which did seem to cope better with the crowds of people.

There was an issue when some passengers for Pyle couldnt get on the train as it was full of passengers traveling to Swansea, that said staff were telling some people to wait 10 minutes for the 17:48 HST^▸ (High Speed Train) to Swansea.

I am hoping to take a trip to Fishguard Hbr soon to try out the new service, is there  a plus bus option for fishguard? if not perhaps something could be looked especially when the station at Fishguard & Goodwick opens?

[inspector_blakey]

Bus timetable for connections to the town here:

http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/090911Fishguard/

If you can make it before Friday, those services operated by AB Phillips are free. From Friday onwards all services are operated by Brodyr Richards (service #410) and will cost. No PlusBus option at the moment: would it serve much of a purpose...? That part of Pembs isn't exactly overburdened with bus services. I can see there being some demand for travel up to Newport (Trefdraeth, not Casnewydd...) and Cardigan, but the latter is already served by a bus link from Carmarthen which I reckon is probably significantly quicker for passengers from points east.

[matt473]

Possibly there could be extenstions to the Cymru Connect tickets that are offered allowing through bus and train travel on certain services in Wales to cater for those travelling further afield to Fishguard. However a trick is missed with the tickets not available on local buses since it's only available at ticket offices which are for from numerous in certain parts of Wales

[phile]

The 17 37 departure from cardiff Central to Milford  was formed of a 3 carriage class 175, which did seem to cope better with the crowds of people.

There was an issue when some passengers for Pyle couldnt get on the train as it was full of passengers traveling to Swansea, that said staff were telling some people to wait 10 minutes for the 17:48 HST^▸ (High Speed Train) to Swansea.

I am hoping to take a trip to Fishguard Hbr soon to try out the new service, is there  a plus bus option for fishguard? if not perhaps something could be looked especially when the station at Fishguard & Goodwick opens?

What happened when  it was a through train from Ebbw Vale with 2 coaches only ?  No complaits then,  perhaps now due to passengers travelling through from The Marches route.