South Wales local services - Pembroke, Fishguard, Swanline, etc.

[whole diary]

[Jez]

Last day of the old timetable today then, be interesting to see how it all works on Monday.

I noticed today the 1455 Manchester service came into Swansea late and stayed around for ages even after everyone has boarded the train. It was also announced as calling additionally at Pencoed and Llanharan. I have just checked the train tracking via live departure boards and it looks like it got even later as time went on and its been terminated short of Manchester at Stockport.

The 17.10 Swanline which I ended up on was 3 cars - a 153 and 158. I went on the 158. I wonder if this was the diagram all day or have they finally decided to put extra capacity on this busy service.

[anthony215]

Dam i havent seen a class 158 on the daytime swanline for a while.  Ideally the 17:10 should be a class 150 or 158 not a single class 153.

[anthony215]

Noticed at least 2 class 150's on the long distance services to Holyhead & manchester today.

[Rhydgaled]

Noticed at least 2 class 150's on the long distance services to Holyhead & manchester today.

Oh dear oh dear. 150s on the Fishguard (being an express service) is bad enough, having them turn up on even longer distance fast services is even worse.

ps:
have you talked to Richards Bros yet? Maybe they won't need to run any different services, it's all gone quite on fishguardtrains.info, the consultation was supposed to start in April, then the begining of May but no news yet.

[anthony215]

Not much, the idea was being looked at but seems to have gone really quiet, i wonder if the WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) have suddenly realised that they wont have the stock available.

Best idea i can come up with is to get those MK2 stock in Canton back to at least some working order hire in 2 class 31's and run top & tail between Carmarthen & fishguard with the temporary platform at Goodwick.

Another idea put loco hauled back on FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s Cardiff - Taunton route and borrow a  class 150 from them

[Lee]

Interesting e-mail has just reached my inbox:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your interest in the Fishguard Trains Petition.

As you may or may not know, the petition has now achieved its objectives and new services will begin to serve Fishguard Harbour Station in September of 2011, any thoughts on how we can publicise the new service & thoughts on reopening Fishguard & Goodwick Station would be welcome at this email address or fishguard.railway@live.co.uk.

We write to you to ask for your thoughts on the new timetable for the improved services, attached is a copy of the Welsh Assembly Government's Timetable Consultation & draft timetable, at the bottom of this is a responses form. We would be grateful if as many people as possible could fill in and return the responses form with their thoughts on the new timetable to the address below.

PLEASE NOTE - Deadlines for responses are Friday the 17th of June 2011 - So be sure to send your envelope off before then!


FAO Mark Price
Rail Unit
Integrated Transport
Welsh Assembly Government
FREEPOST NAT 8910
Cathays Park
Cardiff CF10 3NQ


If you would prefer them to send you a Freepost envelope please e-mail your request with your full postal address to:-


Mrs Ann Thomas
Rail Unit
Yr Uned Rheilffyrdd
Transport - Trafnidiaeth
Local Government and Communities
Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau
Welsh Assembly Government
Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru
Cathays Park/Parc Cathays, Cardiff/Caerdydd, CF10 3NQ
Tel/Ffon:029 2082 5244 fax/Ffacs: 029 2082 6306
e-mail/e-bost: Ann.thomas2@wales.gsi.gov.uk



Many Thanks,

Fishguard Trains Petition Team.

Consultation form should be attached. If you require a Welsh version, then let me know and I'll happily send you one.

[anthony215]

Thanks for posting that  i am not sure that i would be too happy about the re-timing the 15:14 Cardiff - Swansea swanline service though and running it to fishguard, what will happen to the 17:10 Swansea - Cardiff swanline service.

[Rhydgaled]

Is that fishguard.railway@live.co.uk address for Mrs Ann Thomas, Rail Unit, Transport, Local Government and Communities, Welsh Assembly Government, Cathays Park, Cardiff or for the NPTF? If the latter, why should I use this address rather than the normal info at nptf addreess? (I think a public meeting to discuss various options might be useful, a bit like when Prof. Stuart Cole came to Aberystwyth university for the TrawsCambria consultaion but in shorter time slots to enable more discussion between members of the public, not just one person at a time turning up to talk to WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about)/ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) representatives. Which address do I contact? Such a public debate might explain to those who think the new trains should call at Haverfordwest why trains won't call at Haverfordwest and inform pepole about the Swansea District Line (which I have a feeling WAG or ATW or some-body don't want us the general public to know about).

I don't like the sound of the through trains to Manchester or provision of 175s. I thought they found when looking at a hourly Miford Haven services that the Manchester - Carmarthen couldn't extend further west and I wouldn't want to see the Milford branch loose any of it's current services. Add to that the fact that 175 booked services now see alarming numbers of class 150 substiutions (2 per day on the Holyhead - Cardiffs apparently, and before the new 175 CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains) - Holyhead (WAG express 2) started up I saw a 150 on what must of been a train from Milford heading the other way as I was traveling from Cardiff to Haverfordwest) and I think this is a poor desion. Better to wait to December with no service, or a simple 153 shuttle from Fishguard to Carmarthen, to give them time to prepare some LHCS^▸ (Locomotive Hauled Coaching Stock) to free up some 158s for an improved Fishguard service from December than cause even more 150s to turn up on express routes. Which trains on the timetable are supposed to be 175s by the way?

I wonder if they will be using the through platforms for the trains that terminate at Whitland or using one of the bays, the Cardigan one needs fixing if they want to use that! Similarly, will they use the short bay at Camarthen at all?

Also, it is as I feared, one of our 5 extra services into Fishguard is essentially an ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) working (05:50 from Camarthen, I'd be supprised if enough passengers want to head west at that time to fill a taxi, let alone pay of any aspect of operating the train). The 20:26 departure from Fishguard is also of little use, but a bit more useful than the morning train I suppose. Is there permissive working at FGH? If they can run-round locos, I'd have thought there would have to be. If so, wouldn't the only problem with stabling the unit overnight at FGH be ensuring that you make sure either the driver or guard on the first and last service have a car driving licence? Alternativly, you could perhaps keep the 20:26 departure and couple the unit to the front of the night boat train on the way in, then leave that unit behind at FGH (provided of course both units are Sprinters).

[Lee]

Is that fishguard.railway@live.co.uk address for Mrs Ann Thomas, Rail Unit, Transport, Local Government and Communities, Welsh Assembly Government, Cathays Park, Cardiff or for the NPTF? If the latter, why should I use this address rather than the normal info at nptf addreess?

E-mail was sent to me from fishguard@gmx.com , which is an e-mail address used by the Fishguard Trains Petition Team (http://www.moylegrove.co.uk/signhere.htm , a website that I see you have contributed to) to send out info to their mailing list (which I'm on).

Me just the messenger - I'm sure that they will be happy to answer your question.

[Lee]

WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) issue correction to the draft timetable after Fishguard Trains point out that Carmarthen-Whitland cant be done in 4 minutes..http://fishguardtrains.info/?p=79

[anthony215]

It would be a very high speed train to do that

[Jez]

How come there are so many 150s on the Manchester/Holyhead trains? The new WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) express would only take up 1x 175 so I cant see why they are so short?

[anthony215]

 I have noticed a few of the valley lines services are shortformed as well. There must be a problem with a few units perhaps

[Jez]

Interesting how the new Saturday timetable is very different from weekdays. The Manchesters are all departing from Cardiff at xx55 making use of the fact there is no xx55 London service on Saturdays. Also all the down services are the same as before with a few slight amendments e.g. the 13.30 from Manchester now going all the way to Pembroke Dock.

Also notice 16xx from Ebbw Vale still extends into the Swanline 17.38 whilst on weekdays the fast and stopping service have been swapped around.

[Hafren]

Having just read the Fishguard consultation document...

Hmmmmmmmmmm :-)

A very different planning principle from the one displayed on the Milford and Pembroke routes, which have a relatively simple clockface (more or less) timetable. Here there's an element of concentrating the service around the (commuting) peaks.

I suspect this means someone's worked out that there isn't a spare unit available. It looks like the timetable might be achievable with existing resources, hence the concentration on the morning and evening.

Working out the diagrams in order to understand what's going on, if I've interpreted correctly we have...

Diagram 1 - 175?
05.50 CMN-FGH
06.53 FGH-WTL
Then ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) to CLR, enabling it to depart Whitland as a shunt move without first shunting to the down platform?
07.33 CLR-FGH
08.06 FGH-SWA^» (Swansea - next trains) (Perhaps to Manchester...?)
If this does go to Manchester, it would effectively be using the 175 that currently starts on a Pembroke Dock service and ends up in the same path to Manchester after sitting in Swansea for half an hour. The CMN-SWA part is currently split off the 7.50 off Swansea, and then goes onto the 10.05 SWA-PMD.

This looks like the only through Manchester service, and as such I don't think we need to worry about taking 175s off other long-distance trains, but if this is indeed to be a 175-op'd through working, what happens to the first Pembroke Dock service...?

Diagram 2 - 153
Detach from 7.50 off SWA (CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains)-PMD service)
08.50 CMN-FGH (Using the set that currently operates the 09.xx CMN-SWA then Pembroke Dock for the rest of the day)
09.55 FGH-CMN
xx.xx CMN-PMD (etc... the remains of the current 10.05 [or is it 10.00 now?] SWA-PMD)

But if this is right I can't work out what is to form the first Pembroke service.

Then nothing until the existing daytime service...

Diagram 3 - 150
Existing Swanline daytime then...
15.30 CDF-FGH (As noted previously, this orphans the 17.10)
18.49 FGH-WTL
19.38 WTL-FGH
20.26 FGH-CMN

What happens to the 17.10 Swanline? It has been noted that WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) 2 currently languishes in Cardiff all day. Perhaps it runs ECS to Swansea and forms the 17.10, which would basically restore the through service shown in the draft May 2011 timetable! If it runs ECS to Swansea, I'd suggest using it for an extra 16.04 CDF-Swanline ;-)
Alternatively, perhaps the 16.55 will just make extra stops, perhaps with a later subsequent departure from Cardiff to the Marches.

And what happens to that first Pembroke train?

I'm not surprised by the interaction with the 7.50 SWA-PMD. If there had been a new dedicated unit, I'd have suggested using the split off this service to swap sets over, with the earlier Fishguard set then going through to Swansea as the 9.xx CMN-SWA.

I doubt the extra platforms at Carmarthen and Whitland could be used without additional investment. I suspect the Carmarthen bay is only be signalled for shunt movements. Whitland's only extant bay is only accessible from the branch. The evening train that turns back at Whitland could be shunted from the up to down line via the east end crossover.
Re permissive working at Fishguard, is the platform part of the token section? I have a feeling it would be, in which case another train couldn't run onto the branch. Having said that, perhaps a unit could shunt beyond the platform if the track to allow another train to run. TBH^▸ (to be honest) I don't really see the point of holding trains there overnight, given that the early & late Pembs and Milford trains don't do that, and the crew would then need taxis.