South Wales local services - Pembroke, Fishguard, Swanline, etc.

[whole diary]

[Jez]

I agree that Swanline/HOW and Pembroke/Milford could all do with a better service as most stations on those services get 2 hourly service at best (apart from the main stations Bridgend, Port Talbot, Neath, Llanelli, Carmarthen etc).

In the other direction the Fishguard fast service across the district runs just ahead of the Manchester train once it joins the main line, but it must almost have caught the 125 up by Cardiff.

Ive noticed both a 150 and 158 regularly on Manchester-West Wales services this week. The 150 I think was on the 1755 Swansea-Manchester yesterday which if it comes from Carmarthen and you trace it back I think would have been on the first Swansea-Manchester service (0645 Swansea).  Also the one that forms the 1910 Swanline which has previously been on a Manchester-Milford service seems to be a 158 so there seems to be a lack of 175s. Maybe they have quite a few out of service to finish of the refurbishment.

[Rhydgaled]

If journey times weren't so massivly behind the roads, then there might be a good case for making all trains go via Swansea. Also, it would be daft to divert any of the present services away from Swansea, any district line services would have to be additional (or if you divert the Manchester - Carmarthen via the district, you'd have to add a Cardiff - Carmarthen via Swansea to replace it). Even knocking 15mins off, you still don't quite catch up with the car. And yes, more Swansea services are needed too, SWWITCH want 2.5 trains per hour Swansea to Carmarthen after the Gowerton re-doubling. I don't disagree, I just think we need an express service too, eg.:

• 1tph Swansea - Whitland calling at Gowerton, Llanelli, Pembrey & Burry Port, Kidwelly, Ferryside, Carmarthen, St Clears (probablly not there initally) and Whitland, continuing to Pembroke Dock in one hour and splitting to Milford and Tenby in the other (calling at all stations on both routes).
• (2-hourly) Manchester - Carmarthen via Swansea calling at Gowerton, Llanelli, Pembrey & Burry Port and Carmarthen
• (2-hourly) Swansea - Carmarthen calling at Gowerton, Llanelli, Pembrey & Burry Port and Carmarthen
• (2-hourly) Manchester - Milford Haven via Swansea calling at Llanelli, Carmarthen, Whitland, Haverfordwest, Johnston and Milford Haven
• (2-hourly) Cardiff - Fishguard via district line calling at Llanelli, Carmarthen, Whitland, possiblly Wolfscastle, Fishguard & Goodwick and Fishguard Harbour (you'd probablly want to terminate trains that don't have a ferry to connect with at Fishguard & Goodwick)

The passenger timetable (at least last year) doesn't appear to show the Fishguard -> Cardiff to be any faster than the other services, but we were 15mins early both times I used it and I've not had anyone disagree that a 15min time saving is possible on a regular basis.

As I said over on rail fourms, there are supposedly 10 paths an hour between Cardiff and Bridgend, 6 fast (20mins) and 4 slow (30mins). Even if you increased the frequency to 2 stoppers, 2 west Wales diesels and 2 London INTERCITYs per hour there's 4 paths left for frieght (2 fast and 2 slow, frieght doesn't call at stations so if you electrified the line a class 90 might be able to do a freight in a fast path, the slow passenger trains would then be 377s, which should speed them up too).

[anthony215]

here is the reason why it was decided to not put the wires to Swansea:

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/news/Transport-boss-reveals-rail-electrification-bid-failed/article-3398059-detail/article.html

I would like to know how there can only be 1 electric train per hour between Cardiff & Swansea when u also have the swanline service which could easily be increased to hourly so that 2 per hour

[LiskeardRich]

it says there is only demand for 1 train per hour in your link, it doesnt say nothing about only being 1 electric path, there saying there is no economics spending 62million on the wires, for a number of passengers who would fit easily onto 1 service per hour,

[Jez]

Another lovely Saturday in terms of weather - what was on Pembroke Dock and HOW diagrams? The Swanline that is usually a 150 was a 143 today - it then goes to Abergavenny after it arrives into Cardiff at 16xx.

[Rhydgaled]

here is the reason why it was decided to not put the wires to Swansea:

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/news/Transport-boss-reveals-rail-electrification-bid-failed/article-3398059-detail/article.html

I would like to know how there can only be 1 electric train per hour between Cardiff & Swansea when u also have the swanline service which could easily be increased to hourly so that 2 per hour

Exactly, an hourly Swanline would be a good idea and make it 2 per hour electric. Even if you didn't increase Swanline frequency that's still 1.5tph which is greater than 1tph. WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) would have to pay for the Swanline EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) anyway, so they might as well pay to wire Maesteg to Ebbw Vale while they are at it and you have 3 electric trains per hour from Cardiff to Bridgend, plus freight to Port Talbot and anywhere else between Cardiff and Swansea.

[Hafren]

Another lovely Saturday in terms of weather - what was on Pembroke Dock and HOW diagrams? The Swanline that is usually a 150 was a 143 today - it then goes to Abergavenny after it arrives into Cardiff at 16xx.

I took advantage of the weather and visited Offa's Dyke today... HoW^‡(resolve) was mostly 153s, which seemed to be sufficient. A bit odd, though - the 9.16 from Swansea was very much a 153, but coming back when I passed the 18.21 SWA^» (Swansea - next trains)-SHR^» (Shrewsbury - next trains) at Llanwrtyd it was a 150! As far as I can tell they're the same diagram, and it doesn't hit Cardiff in between, so something unusual must have happened to swap them.

There was at least one 150 going to Pembroke - on the 9.20ish arrival from Carmarthen, which on a Saturday (bit different from weekdays) would form the 9.50ish to PMD, which can be quite busy with day trippers in the summer. There was some potential for confusion: the 9.16 was a few minutes late, the 9.20ish arrival was a bit early, there being a lot of padding, and both use Platform 3! So the 9.16 was announced as P3, and then the 150 from Carmarthen arrived. Then the 9.16 arrived in front. Usually I suppose the arrival would wait on Swansea Loop for the 9.16 to go, but as it was a few minutes late that would have delayed the arrival, and so they let it in first. It makes sense for the Carmarthen arrival to use P3 to provide a cross-platform connection into the 9.28, but given the potential for confusion, I don't know why the 9.16 doesn't just go from Platform 4 (it's only there a few minutes and there are no obvious conflicts).

On the subject of electrification to Swansea... if they were to do that, and not to do any of the other routes, at least initially, it would make sense for ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) to take over the Cardiff-Bristol local service, which has been suggested by various people. Then they could run a through Swansea-Bristol service, which would be a useful through service, and would be more efficient than an isolated pool stock for Swanline, as well as making better use of the electrification between Cardiff and Bristol. An electric Swanline service would also help with acceleration, and consequently its ability to hold up faster trains. I'd keep Cardiff-Portsmouth as it is, though, as it's also a very useful through service.

[Rhydgaled]

it says there is only demand for 1 train per hour in your link, it doesnt say nothing about only being 1 electric path, there saying there is no economics spending 62million on the wires, for a number of passengers who would fit easily onto 1 service per hour,

^62 million? That changes things, alot. When I wrote my report to WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) a while back I was working with 3.5million per mile. ^62million for the 46 miles from Cardiff to Swansea works out at about ^1.4million per mile. Now, the money I was trying to get at would cover electrifing not just the Swanline, Cheltenham Spa, Ebbw Vale and Maesteg services but nearly the entire ValleyLines network. Think what Heart Of Wales, Conwy Valley and Pembroke Dock could do with all those 150s!!! That would give up 153s to allow them to be doubled up to form my Fishguard - Cardiff 2-hourly express service until England or Scotland do some more electrfication and give us more 158s.

On the subject of electrification to Swansea... if they were to do that, and not to do any of the other routes, at least initially, it would make sense for ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) to take over the Cardiff-Bristol local service, which has been suggested by various people. Then they could run a through Swansea-Bristol service, which would be a useful through service, and would be more efficient than an isolated pool stock for Swanline, as well as making better use of the electrification between Cardiff and Bristol. An electric Swanline service would also help with acceleration, and consequently its ability to hold up faster trains. I'd keep Cardiff-Portsmouth as it is, though, as it's also a very useful through service.

That is a good idea for Swanline, in my proposal I linked it with the Cheltenham service and put Maesteg trains through to Ebbw Vale Instead, removing the need for Swanline and Ebbw Vale to turn back at Cardiff.

[anthony215]

I had a shock last night when i had a class 158 , no.  158833 on the delayed 19:04 Cardiff Central - Pembroke Dock service, first time i have had  a class 158 on a swanline service  for a while.

There were a lot of delays in Cardiff yesterday, with the 09:42 Bridgend - Barry - Cardiff central train being routed into Platform 4 with  the reaer carriage partially outside the platform because a FGW^▸ (First Great Western) class 158 was in the way.  a few trains had to run non stop to Penarth to make up time. I know the Fishguard left a few minutes late as did the 10:51 Cardiff Central - Treherbert train which was formed from 1 of the  2 class 150's i came in on from Bridgend.

I did take some shots, which i will post on my flickr & fotopic pages later today.

[Jez]

Last night I travelled back from Cardiff on the 2315 Carmarthen service (been to see X Factor in the CIA^▸ (Central Intelligence Agency (USA))), and it was 6 cars - 2x 3 car 175s. They were tellling people to move to the front car of the 2nd 175 for Pencoed, Llanharan, Pontyclun and swanline stations as it was too long for the platform! Good idea tho to have 6 cars - I wonder if having such a big event on in Cardiff prompted the extra capacity. The trains going up from Swansea were overcrowded all week particularly the 1655 Manchester service.

On arrival into Cardiff I noticed the new refurbished 158 in the sidings at Canton - im guessing this was due to form a Holyhead service. Also one of the Portsmouths yesterday was 4 car - a 150 and a 2 car 158.

Today I noticed again we have a 150 on one of the Manchester diagrams and a few 158's.  Plus one of the Swanline was 2 pacers stuck together. I wonder if Pembroke Dock diagrams have had extra capacity today?

[Hafren]

Interesting use of 2 175s. The only time I've seen 2 together before, one set has been locked. They must have some sort of SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening) then - never heard of it being used on a 175 before. I believe 180s have SDO, but I have a feeling their doors are released by the driver, so it's a different setup anyway.

I passed a 158 yesterday: would have been the 19.10 up Swanline. They seem to have been stretching their legs recently...

Re the VoG working going into Platform 4... I've noticed something similar before, forming the Fishguard and Treherbert services, so I assume it's the normal arrangement. What would be the 11.06 Treherbert leaves early and runs non-stop to Radyr, enabling it to go from P4 via the City line. I'd assumed it would be formed by an earlier Treherbert arrival, but it looks like it might be formed by that Vale arrival.

[anthony215]

Back in may 2008 i had a train being formed of 3 class 175's 1, 3 carriage set  and 2 , 2 carriage sets  the rear unit was locked out of use with the front 2  , 2 carriage unit's being uncoupled at Swansea and passengers having to board the  3 carriage set at Swansea to continue to west wales.

[Jez]

I didnt even notice it was 2 175s together until the guard explained the reason people were being asked to move down the train if they were getting off at the smaller stations because the train was too long for the platform.

When we arrived into Cardiff they seemed to have platform capacity problems. I travelled up on the swanline which was a 150 and a 153 attached to the back which was locked (the guard had to stop people trying to get onto the 153 at every station!).  It terminated at Platform 2 but the back door of the 150 and all of the 153 werent next to the platform.  There was an ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) 150 near the middle of the platform followed by the 4 car Portsmouth Hbr Train (a 150 and 158 together), then our train. Had to move down the carriage to get off.   Im guessing they were keeping platform 1 free for the paddington service which is 5 mins behind swanline.

Yes nice to see the 158's being used - they seem to be regularly used now on Manchesters and Maesteg services.

Ive noticed on the new timetable one of the trains from Holyhead goes on to Milford Haven as a through service. In the other direction tho I dont think there are any through trains to Holyhead or even Chester.

[anthony215]

I didnt even notice it was 2 175s together until the guard explained the reason people were being asked to move down the train if they were getting off at the smaller stations because the train was too long for the platform.

When we arrived into Cardiff they seemed to have platform capacity problems. I travelled up on the swanline which was a 150 and a 153 attached to the back which was locked (the guard had to stop people trying to get onto the 153 at every station!).  It terminated at Platform 2 but the back door of the 150 and all of the 153 werent next to the platform.  There was an ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) 150 near the middle of the platform followed by the 4 car Portsmouth Hbr Train (a 150 and 158 together), then our train. Had to move down the carriage to get off.   Im guessing they were keeping platform 1 free for the paddington service which is 5 mins behind swanline.

Yes nice to see the 158's being used - they seem to be regularly used now on Manchesters and Maesteg services.

Ive noticed on the new timetable one of the trains from Holyhead goes on to Milford Haven as a through service. In the other direction tho I dont think there are any through trains to Holyhead or even Chester.

Yes i seen that for some reason the currrent wag express is sproposed to run to Milford Haven from May

[Jez]

Wonder what journey it will come back on, unless they run it empty across the district line.