South Wales local services - Pembroke, Fishguard, Swanline, etc.

[whole diary]

[Jez]

I wonder where all the 153s were yesterday - unless they doubled up on Pembroke Dock rather than the 2 car sets being 150s.  Im sure Maesteg is usually more 150s than 158s these days so perhaps they used the 150s more on Swanline/Pembroke and stuck 158s on Maesteg.

Both directions really but seem to be more going towards Cardiff in the evening-  dont notice them pass so much in the winter when its dark but in the summer its easier to spot! Sometimes ive seen very long formations of 158/150/153 - so up to 5 cars. Some havent always got the lights on inside tho. Also I travelled back from Manchester one Sunday afternoon last Summer and it was a 158/150 going to Pembs and Milford Haven - was going to be split at Carmarthen or Whitland - the announcement was made in Manchester that it would split (and they listed all those Welsh stations in West Wales followed by all the request stops) but when we got to Cardiff they said that the back end of the train (158) would terminate and the 150 would just carry on to West Wales. So not sure whether it was meant to be a milford or pembroke dock service. I used the 158 all the way down to Cardiff as I much prefer that to a 150.

[anthony215]

Got news today that Fishguard Harbour is to get a a train every 2 hours from september.

http://wales.gov.uk/newsroom/transport/2011/110329fishguard/;jsessionid=7QhDNRvTwpn7n0XpGrmv9ss90D8YLJ89nsnwm9gJJhd1LY72hyyK!1452112521?lang=en

hopefully we will see some of the stations re-open on the route.

Also the WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) are upgrading the Trawscambira bus/coach network with new vehicles (Was told that  some of these would be similar to the van hool bodied wheel chair acessible coaches used on greenline services in london) also a number of routes are being extended with better frequencies.

One such route is service 704 Newtwon - Llandrindod - Brecon which is being extended to Cardiff

With regards to the Fishguard Branch i wonder where ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) are going to find the unit especially when they have to use a class 175 on the 2nd WAG to Holyhead

[rogerw]

Probably one of the Cl150s currently on loan to FGW^▸ (First Great Western).

[anthony215]

Probably one of the Cl150s currently on loan to FGW^▸ (First Great Western).

Or it could be the class 153  used on the swanline which will be replaced by 1 of the class 150's

ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) should also have all of their class 175's back in service as well, or maybe they are planning on running the loco hauled stock through to Fishguard & back rather than it sitting in canton all day

[Jez]

Good news - are they Carmarthen-Fishguard only tho. Would be great if they could be Swansea-Fishguard so there would be a half hourly Swansea-Carmarthen service with 1 extention to each of Pembroke, Milford and Fishguard every 2 hours (and the other terminating at Carmarthen as now)

[Rhydgaled]

Good news - are they Carmarthen-Fishguard only tho. Would be great if they could be Swansea-Fishguard so there would be a half hourly Swansea-Carmarthen service with 1 extention to each of Pembroke, Milford and Fishguard every 2 hours (and the other terminating at Carmarthen as now)

Yep, sounds like it will be Fishguard - Carmarthen only. They say there's no room for more trains between Llanelli and Swansea until the re-doubling, but I had been hopeing for a 2-hourly Fishguard - Cardiff express via the Swansea District Line. 15min Cardiff - Carmarthen time savings would be possible with no extra infrastructure. I'm worried the district line will go when the redoubling happens if a regular service over it isn't introduced by then, if that happens we can say goodbye to the possiblity of fast trips to Cardiff.

[IndustryInsider]

I'm worried the district line will go when the redoubling happens if a regular service over it isn't introduced by then, if that happens we can say goodbye to the possiblity of fast trips to Cardiff.

Does it provide useful for ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) moves as a way of reversing a HST^▸ (High Speed Train) that's arrived at Landore the wrong way round for example?

[inspector_blakey]

Got news today that Fishguard Harbour is to get a a train every 2 hours from september.

http://wales.gov.uk/newsroom/transport/2011/110329fishguard/;jsessionid=7QhDNRvTwpn7n0XpGrmv9ss90D8YLJ89nsnwm9gJJhd1LY72hyyK!1452112521?lang=en

hopefully we will see some of the stations re-open on the route.

Not many to reopen... I've read the odd muttering in the local press about St Clears, where I doubt that the additional trips between Carmarthen and Fishguard would be a clinching factor in sealing the case for reopening since it's between Carmarthen and Whitland (and an easy drive to either) and there's already a fairly frequent service. Clynderwen and Clarbeston Road are both very much still open. Apart from that there's Sarnau, with about three houses, and old halts at Wolfscastle, Welsh Hook, Mathry Road (predictably, nowhere near Mathry) and Jordanston which are similarly small places.

Letterston might, just might, be a viable contender for a station but it doesn't look like it ever had one in the past and I forget just how close it is to the line.

[Hafren]

A Carmarthen-Fishguard shuttle makes sense as that can be done with one unit. The Evening Post says there will be 5 extra trains, so with the boat trains that'll total 6 during the day, plus the night service providing an evening connection. If timed well it might help to fill in some of the gaps for Whitland, which has a bit of an erratic pattern.

Given the sparse population I can't see any extra stations being justified unless they're seen as having railhead potential. Perhaps re-opening Fishguard & Goodwick would help to generate demand by making it a bit more convenient, albeit still somewhat out of town for FIshguard. Looking at a map, Letterston isn't too far from the line - about a mile by proper road. Wolfs Castle is convenient for both the railway and the A40, giving some use as a railhead, but I suspect most of the park-and-ride passengers would just use Fishguard or Haverfordwest unless quite close to an intermediate stop, and I can't really imagine there being many such passengers anyway.

Re the redoubling through Gowerton, would freight still go via the District Line anyway? I'm thinking mainly in terms of gradients - not sure how the DL compares, but through Cockett & Gowerton it's about 1 in 50 or 60, and Neath-Swansea is also fairly steep. Not that it's an insurmountable issue with modern locos, of course. WIthout the DL, HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) can still turn on the Landore triangle, where there is also potential to 'avoid' Swansea. I can't really see many more passenger services on the DL unless additional stations open (Morriston etc) to help justify it, given that revenue from Swansea wouldn't be there to support such services, and additional stock provided, as there would still be a need to provide at least the current level of service to Swansea. There is a report somewhere on the web that does suggest 3tph Swansea-Llanelli once it's fully double track, with 2tp going through to Carmarthen, but doesn't AFAIR mention the DIstrict Line.

[inspector_blakey]

It's certainly a vicious gradient out of Swansea heading west - only times I've been up it on loco-hauled trains they made mincemeat of the climb, but then they were 37s on load 4 and hadn't just started from Swansea High Street so they bleedin' well shouldn't have had any trouble. HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) starting out of the station can be quite pedestrian up the bank on their way to CMN/PMD.

Bit of an aside, but do the fairly frequent steam excursions to Carmarthen and points west operate via the District Line or Gowerton? I'd be interested to see what a steamer made of the bank with load 12-13!

[anthony215]

 Most of the steam special's or any other railtours do tend to use the district line although tornado has been over cokett bank, i am sure there is a video on youtube of it.

[Rhydgaled]

Got news today that Fishguard Harbour is to get a a train every 2 hours from september.

http://wales.gov.uk/newsroom/transport/2011/110329fishguard/;jsessionid=7QhDNRvTwpn7n0XpGrmv9ss90D8YLJ89nsnwm9gJJhd1LY72hyyK!1452112521?lang=en

hopefully we will see some of the stations re-open on the route.

Not many to reopen... I've read the odd muttering in the local press about St Clears, where I doubt that the additional trips between Carmarthen and Fishguard would be a clinching factor in sealing the case for reopening since it's between Carmarthen and Whitland (and an easy drive to either) and there's already a fairly frequent service. Clynderwen and Clarbeston Road are both very much still open. Apart from that there's Sarnau, with about three houses, and old halts at Wolfscastle, Welsh Hook, Mathry Road (predictably, nowhere near Mathry) and Jordanston which are similarly small places.

Letterston might, just might, be a viable contender for a station but it doesn't look like it ever had one in the past and I forget just how close it is to the line.

Letterston did have a station, but it was on the original (Maencloclog railway) line to Fishguard which is now gone. Wolfscastle is right next to a bus stop on the A40, a few minitues on the hourly 412 bus would make Wolfscastle the station for Letterston. It is the only station other than Fishguard & Goodwick worth re-opening on the Fishguard branch I think.

When Gowerton's doubled the stopper to Pembroke Dock could be made hourly, with a portion for Milford in the hours there isn't a Manchester, and then re-opening St Clears on the main line wouldn't be a bad idea, as the hourly stopper could call. I'd also have an hourly fast west of Carmarthen, the current Manchester - Milford and a Fishguard - Cardiff express (via District Line). While I think there's a case for new stations on the district line, calling the Fishguard express at any of them would defeat the object of trying to make more favorable journey times from Carmarthen and west Wales to Cardiff.

[anthony215]

Letterston did have a station, but it was on the original (Maencloclog railway) line to Fishguard which is now gone. Wolfscastle is right next to a bus stop on the A40, a few minitues on the hourly 412 bus would make Wolfscastle the station for Letterston. It is the only station other than Fishguard & Goodwick worth re-opening on the Fishguard branch I think.

When Gowerton's doubled the stopper to Pembroke Dock could be made hourly, with a portion for Milford in the hours there isn't a Manchester, and then re-opening St Clears on the main line wouldn't be a bad idea, as the hourly stopper could call. I'd also have an hourly fast west of Carmarthen, the current Manchester - Milford and a Fishguard - Cardiff express (via District Line). While I think there's a case for new stations on the district line, calling the Fishguard express at any of them would defeat the object of trying to make more favorable journey times from Carmarthen and west Wales to Cardiff.
[/quote]

There are hardly any spare paths between Bridgend & Cardiff Central. Only option would be to  divert some more freight via the vale of glamorgan route or build more loops between Bridgend & Cardiff with diverting some freights via the heart of wales line.

I am currently creating a timetable idea which i will email when i have finished it.

[IndustryInsider]

I'd also have an hourly fast west of Carmarthen, the current Manchester - Milford and a Fishguard - Cardiff express (via District Line). While I think there's a case for new stations on the district line, calling the Fishguard express at any of them would defeat the object of trying to make more favorable journey times from Carmarthen and west Wales to Cardiff.

I'll be the first to hold my hand up and say I'm not that familiar with the metals west of Cardiff - it's been nearly 20 years since I've been that way (though I'm looking forward to a few days in Tenby late summer), but it would seem on the face of it rather silly to miss out a Swansea stop, given that it's the second largest city in Wales and, Cardiff apart, dwarfs any other settlement in the immediate area.

Surely the time penalty is worth the extra stop as that's where a sizeable chunk of the folk from Pembroke, Milford Haven, Tenby, Carmarthen and soon, Fishguard, would want to go?

[Hafren]

I'd agree with that; one could suggest a few token faster trains, but given that certain local services could do with improving (SwanLine, Heart of Wales, hourly to Haverfordwest?) there would probably be better uses for any extra units that can be found.

Looking at a recent timetable (2010) the existing Fishguard service is actually less than 10 minutes quicker than the typical Manchester-Carmarthen between Cardiff and Llanelli. Line speed aside (50mph on the District Line IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly), unless someone feels there's a case to upgrade) that's probably because of pathing: it runs close behind a HST^▸ (High Speed Train) and probably has to wait for it to clear Port Talbot. So it could be faster if a suitable path is found, but illustrates that it might be hard to find such a path. It's not unusual to be in a HST stuck behind a stopper or freight, and a couple of local services spend a lot of extra time between Pencoed and Bridgend to allow faster trains to pass. The advantage of the District Line, for any type of traffic, is probably more down to the separation/regulation than speed.