South Wales local services - Pembroke, Fishguard, Swanline, etc.

[whole diary]

[Rhydgaled]

Any refurbished 158's out yet? Many of them still havent the ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) colours on them. All the 175's have and they havent been part of the fleet as long as 158's have!

Maybe somebody at ATW realises how awful the turquoise is and how smart the Wales & West Alphaline livery was (it's not smart anymore though, unless the unit has actually been washed recently). On a more serious note, according to some other fourm the 1st 158 refurb is out today (Monday).

A 158 was on one of the Manchesters yesterday - not really unusual on a weekend or on a Weekday recently. Could be because some 175's are out being refurbished.

If 175s are in for refurbishment, and assuming the 158 is coming out and the next one isn't yet being sent to be done it might be a good week for me to go and photo 158s. I think the Cambrian lines are shut too, meaning even more 158s should be about (unless they're all stuck at Machynlleth). My day off is Wednesday, so what do you reckon the chances are of seeing a 158 in Pembrokeshire then or on Saturday? The thing I most want to photo would be a 158 on the Fishguard, any chance of something other than a 150 there this week?

I definately think a good plan for when Maesteg becomes half hourly would be for the Swanlines to terminate at either Port Talbot or Bridgend and become hourly too. Wth the extra service between Bridgend and Cardiff there would be a 15 minute service when you include the Manchesters and London trains.  If Swanline terminated at Port Talbot, Pyle would have to be added to the Manchesters.

I disagree, I think the Swanline should go hourly right through to Cheltenham Spa (or maybe Ebbw Vale Parkway). (If the Swanline goes to Cheltenham, the Maesteg trains would go to Ebbw Vale Parkway instead of Cheltenham). The extra Maesteg, if there'd not be enough capacity left for it between Bridgend and Cardiff, should instead be an extention of Merthyr/Aberdare - Bridgend (via Vale Of Glamorgan) services.

[anthony215]

I counted at least 3 class 158's working the Cardiff - Milford Haven services on saturday.

[anthony215]

I noticed a few of the pembroke dock services were quite busy today, same with the milford haven service. Traveled to fishguard hbr  from cardiff which  got into Fishguard 10 minutes early (Dont get that often )

Noticed as we passed canton that pulman rail were working one 1 of the ex silverlink/london  overground class 150's and a ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) class 153.

The swanline's were very busy today, the 16:04 was standing even though it was 3 carriage class 175113 which still han't been refurbished.

I have noticed something else with these class 175's when they were the  swanline services they keep running early, on monday when i had  175009 it ended up  2-3 minutes early and kept doing it all the way to Bridgend.

[Hafren]

The sunny weather must be doing some good for passenger numbers. This can be a problem on 153-operated services, which are often the ones that are particularly sensitive to weather conditions. ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) is very good at not running a 153 to Tenby on a Saturday during the summer timetable, but "winter" Saturdays can be a problem when it's sunny - as I found out a few years ago on an early May Saturday. Very hot day, and I think it was a bank holiday, and guess what... a lot of passengers crammed into a 153!

The Heart of Wales line can also struggle in the not-officially-summer season because of the free travel with concessionary passes during "winter", so a sunny day generates a lot of passengers. I think the boundary for free travel has crept from May to March in the last few years as a result.

[Jez]

Ive noticed a 158 seems to be running the early Swanline quite regularly (0710 off Swansea which is an extension from Carmarthen I believe.) Does this go on to form the 0920 Cardiff-Holyhead?

Yes with the weather being particularly nice this week I wonder if Saturday will see a couple of pacer diagrams on Pembroke Dock which would then free up some 2 x 153 diagrams for the HOW line. Or I guess they could stick a pacer on Cardiff Bay service and use the 153 currently there for extra capacity on Pembroke Dock.

[Jez]

Also be interesting to see what happens on Saturday as due to the football in Cardiff I imagine the Swanlines/Manchesters and valley lines will be very busy.

[Hafren]

It might be a bit difficult to diagram on the basis of weather reports, but might make sense to ensure that summer level capacity is provided from something like mid-April on Saturdays. Is the Bubble Car still out of action? That might reduce availability of other units for extra provision to the west, especially with events in Cardiff.

Looking at the ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) website, the HoW^‡(resolve) concessionary free travel ends this weekend. If it's warm (earlier forecasts suggested rain, but when I checked today I think sun was on offer for Saturday) that might bring out additional passengers taking advantage of the last weekend of free travel.

The 7.10 does (did?) seem to form the 9.20. Going by some of the proposed changes for May, it looks like there'll be more 'local' services west of Cardiff in the evening, in lieu of through Manchesters (haven't looked for a while so not sure), suggesting that perhaps the morning Swanline could revert to a 150...?

[anthony215]

the 06:16 Carmarthen - Cardiff swanline service at teh moment can be a class 158/175 however, it will be a bit diffcult to get a class 150 to work it as that is used on the 07:10 Pembroke Dock - Swansea service which has had to be increased to 2 carriages because of overcrowding on the class 153.

As for the ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) class 121 i haven't seen it out since november 2010, I do susggest that ATW should go and see what Chiltern are doing with their 2 class 121  which are supposed to be getting used more regulary from teh summer when chiltren introduce their new timetable.

[Jez]

I used the Maesteg line today- a 158 up and back an hour later which I was pleased about as I prefer them to 150s.  There were 3 158's and a 150 on Maesteg today - think it would need 5 diagrams in total plus the 175 that does the evening peak - but not sure what the other diagram was.   Im not sure whether Maesteg really needs the proposed half hourly service either, today was a fairly busy Saturday and I had a carriage to myself on the way back - apart from 2 people getting on at Garth. Although I travelled mid afternoon when most people heading to Cardiff for the football would be there already.   I think a 2 hourly Sunday service is needed as to go from half hourly Mon-Sat to nothing on Sunday seems odd.

Manchesters seemed to be mainly 175s although what would have formed the first Carmarthen-Manchester and then the 10.30 back from Manchester was a 158. That then forms the 17xx Milford Service which is the 1910 Swansea-Cardiff swanline.  Didnt see any 153s today - all the swanlines I saw pass were 150s, possibly due to the football, also maybe 153s doubled up on the Pembroke/HOW services.  Maesteg seems to have most 158s then 150s although that could just be Saturday and the 150s are needed elsewhere on Ebbw Vale/Swanline/Valleys etc.

ive not seen the bubble car for ages either, it was out of service for a bit last summer as one saturday i took a train to the bay and it was a pacer. Last Saturday it was a mix of 153 and 142.

Im not sure why so many evening services from Manchester will terminate at Cardiff rather than form services to Swansea/Carmarthen.  It must be due to different diagrams running them. I remember the 2055 from Swansea used to run to Crewe but now it goes to Cardiff and then another unit runs the Crewe service.  This also seems to be happing from May with the 2000 Swansea-Chester service.

[Hafren]

The evening service is probably dictated mainly by what needs to be where the next morning, especially with the mix of 2 and 3 car 175s, and some needing to be back at Canton if they've been away for a few days. If an extra 175 is going to Holyhead, that might mean some changes to diagrams somewhere. I wonder when the Swanline diagram will swap to the 175, as it will need to do at some point from May.

I'd guess the demand on the Maesteg line is usually much greater in one direction than the other. I wonder whether the half-hourly servcie would benefit at Pontyclun and Pencoed (if they don't stop the 2nd service in Bridgend bay): they would probably benefit from a half-hourly service, being reasonably big places (in terms of small towns) and within 20 minutes of Cardiff, especially Pontyclun being close to Llantrisant/Talbot Green and both having  business parks and the like as well as residential areas. I suspect, however, that there is a reluctance to hold up the main line with too many extra stops.

The 7.10 Pembroke Dock is a 175 to Manchester now, so little risk of a 153 these days!

[Jez]

Ive just been looking at the 3 diagrams on HOW and all 3 of them interact with Swanline at some point during the day, with one just starting as the early Cardiff-Swanline-HOW leaving Cardiff around 8am. Worked out that 2 diagrams stay at Canton overnight and 1 at Shrewsbury.  One of the units that stays at Canton must form the early Cardiff-Swansea-Pembs service as we know a unit is swapped from the overnight fishguard onto the early HOW train. Not sure if the one that stays at Shrewsbury overnight might be swapped too and go on local Shrewsbury-Crewe services the next day or if it just forms the early HOW down to Cardiff. Also I think we established the 0435 from Swansea-Shrewsbury is formed with the overnight fishguard which has been on Pembroke Dock the day before. I guess thats why a 150 sometimes turns up on any 3 of the HOW disagram and also the local Shrewsbury-Crewe/Crewe-Chester services on occasion, there arent enough 153s to go on everything.

Yes Pencoed and Pontyclun would benefit from half hourly stops but when you think other large villages such as Pyle, Briton Ferry, Llansamlet have to make do with a 2 hourly service. I think Wildmill, Sarn, Garth etc are very well served with an hourly service.  But what has been proposed is that Swanline will be hourly if the extra Maesteg/Bridgend/Cardiff service happens and trains will terminate at Port Talbot. Pyle would then no longer be swanline but part of the Manchester service. I guess it would be a nice service pattern between Bridgend and Cardiff with 1 train every 15 minutes with 2 fast and 2 stopping services, currently the gap is 25 then 15 then 20 minutes between services (in the hour when no swanline). Quite a lot of people were waiting to get on the train to Cardiff when i got off at Bridgend (1638 from Bridgend-Cheltenham) so the busy part seems to be Bridgend-Cardiff rather than Bridgend-Maesteg. Also it was after the football and also people wouldnt be travelling to Cardiff for a days shopping at 1638! So i think an hourly service to Maesteg is more than adequate.

Are you referring to the 1710 Swanline then forming the new 18xx Cardiff-Holyhead? I think that has now changed and its 2 seperate services - so I expect a 153 as usual on the 17.10 Swanline. I guess it would mess up the swanline/HOW diagrams if it had to be swapped for a 175 in Cardiff for the mid afternoon swanline (15xx?) I wonder what impact the new 18xx 175 Cardiff-Holyhead will have on existing diagrams from May - more 158s perhaps on the Manchester?

[Hafren]

Ive just been looking at the 3 diagrams on HOW and all 3 of them interact with Swanline at some point during the day, with one just starting as the early Cardiff-Swanline-HOW leaving Cardiff around 8am. Worked out that 2 diagrams stay at Canton overnight and 1 at Shrewsbury.

I suspect that the 153 that ends up in Shrewsbury does something more complicated to rotate the set with local services like Crewe-Shrewsbury and the Conwy Valley. I think if a 153 were used on all the 'likely' services they would need over 100% availability! Occasionally I've seen 150+153 on the morning HoW^‡(resolve), presumably when something needs to be returned to Canton.

I'm not sure what forms the 5.50 SWA^» (Swansea - next trains)-PMD these days. The old diagrams show a set running ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) from Canton to form it and the 7.50. The 7.50 now has its own through service, of course. There is a termionating service arriving at Swansea around 19.20 which I suppose could stay overnight, but I don't remember seeing it later in the evening, and I wonder if it attaches to the 21.35 Swanline (also from Pembroke) back to Cardiff.

There are some old diagrams at http://www.prar.fsnet.co.uk/diagrams.html which give some clues, but there have been obvious changes since then.




Yes Pencoed and Pontyclun would benefit from half hourly stops but when you think other large villages such as Pyle, Briton Ferry, Llansamlet have to make do with a 2 hourly service. I think Wildmill, Sarn, Garth etc are very well served with an hourly service.  But what has been proposed is that Swanline will be hourly if the extra Maesteg/Bridgend/Cardiff service happens and trains will terminate at Port Talbot. Pyle would then no longer be swanline but part of the Manchester service. I guess it would be a nice service pattern between Bridgend and Cardiff with 1 train every 15 minutes with 2 fast and 2 stopping services, currently the gap is 25 then 15 then 20 minutes between services (in the hour when no swanline). Quite a lot of people were waiting to get on the train to Cardiff when i got off at Bridgend (1638 from Bridgend-Cheltenham) so the busy part seems to be Bridgend-Cardiff rather than Bridgend-Maesteg. Also it was after the football and also people wouldnt be travelling to Cardiff for a days shopping at 1638! So i think an hourly service to Maesteg is more than adequate.

Are you referring to the 1710 Swanline then forming the new 18xx Cardiff-Holyhead? I think that has now changed and its 2 seperate services - so I expect a 153 as usual on the 17.10 Swanline. I guess it would mess up the swanline/HOW diagrams if it had to be swapped for a 175 in Cardiff for the mid afternoon swanline (15xx?) I wonder what impact the new 18xx 175 Cardiff-Holyhead will have on existing diagrams from May - more 158s perhaps on the Manchester?

Yes - the draft timetables were a bit inconsistent, with one showing a through service and one not. It would seem surprising to swap it during the day, really, as there wouldn't appear to be much other use for the 153 out of Cardiff. If it just starts at 18xx at Cardiff there'd perhaps be more chance of a spare 175 with a bit of juggling. Was it down to 1 equivalent set become available following refurb; I can't imagine there'd be many 158s to spare these days. If it goes loco-hauled as has been suggested, that would make it even less likely to run through from Swanline.

[Jez]

The 21.35 Swanline seems to sometimes be a pacer and sometimes a 150 or 153. Tends to be a mixture depending whats been on Pembroke Dock that day. Ive never seen it being 2 unts attached together I dont think. On Sundays some of the evening ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) services between Cardiff and Swansea that ive seen pass are multiple units - sometimes 3  cars - 2 x 150s and a 153 or even a 153/158/153!  For some reason there are more 158s in this neck of the woods on a weekend, so im assuming the early Monday services from West Wales must be 158s too.

I could be wrong but im assuming the 18xx (and the new fast journey down from Holyhead) will include a first class service so a 175 would need to be refurbished to include this and therefore the same 175 will be used on this and only this service?? If not and its just a fast South-North Wales with the usual trolley service then I guess a 175 that does other journeys could form it. Not sure what 175s would be spare in Cardiff at 18xx? Possibly the Holyhead-Cardiff service that arrives around 17xx but that goes to Maesteg.

Forgot to mention that all 3 of the 158s I saw on Maesteg services today were painted in ATW turquoise - the 158 that formed the early Carmarthen-Manc, then Manc-Milford and finally Milford-Swansea-Swanline was the old silver 158 tho.

[Jez]

Just seen that the 2135 Swanline was a 150 attached to a pacer (not sure if it was 142 or 143) and the lights were out on the pacer so its just being taken back to Canton. Im guessing then that these were 2 of the diagrams on Pembs services today rather than 1 diagram being made up of a 150 and pacer together - although that might be useful on a busy Saturday - 4 car on pembs!

[Hafren]

I doubt they'd refurbish a 175 with first class for one service; I guess they'll just wait until the LHCS^▸ (Locomotive Hauled Coaching Stock) set is available.

It looks like they made the effort to use 2 car sets on the Pembroke diagrams today - I suspect a 153 would have been a bit crowded given the weather. Normal practice last year seemed to be to use Pacers on all Saturday diagrams during the SUmmer timetable, with 2 of the weekday diagrams also becoming Pacers (except the one that goes HoW^‡(resolve) the next day) during the summer peak (July-August). Until 2005 there was a 3-car Saturday diagram, but I haven't seen that since the clockface(ish) timetable started; 2 cars usually just about cope. It would make sense for the 19.23ish arrival to attach to the 2135; I think I've noticed it happen on Saturdays but not on weekdays.

Are those Sunday evening combos going up or down? There seem to be more 150-operated shuttles on Sundays giong to both Milford and Pembroke, which would need to go back to Cardiff in the evening.