South Wales local services - Pembroke, Fishguard, Swanline, etc.

[whole diary]

[anthony215]

even when a 3 carriage class 175 is used on a mqanchester service it can be very busy

[Jez]

I wondered how the Pembs train was able to stay behind the Carmarthen train now Carmarthen has some of the smaller stops - Kidwelly etc. I checked and although its 5 and then 6 minutes behind I think the Pembs train is only 3 mins behind by Carmarthen. Obviously a good connection for people living in Kidwelly and Ferryside. If I use this service I tend to change at Swansea rather than risk not getting a seat if the train is busy by Carmarthen.

Yes some 175's can be busy, even 3 carriage but they prob dont have enough units to run a half hourly service. 3 trains over 2 hours isnt bad I dont think. Plus from 3pm onwards we have half hourly more or less until 6pm with the express service at 16xx. I notice this calls at Cwmbran and Abergavenny on the up - but not Pontypool and New Inn, I think an extra stop for this has been added to the 1550 Manchester.

Yes Saturday the 16xx service to Abergavenny still runs as an extention of Swanline. Im guessing its easy for this to happen since the swanline unit ends at Cardiff anyway on weekdays. Also in the absence of the express train on Saturday an extra train is needed at this time. I dont think it forms a journey back from Abergavenny to Cardiff tho so not sure where it goes then!

I hadnt realised Platform 0 couldnt terminate passenger services but now you mention it ive never seen any passenger services arrive there so services to Manchester, Cheltenham etc which are through trains couldnt stop there. It tends only to be used for Ebbw Vale now. I remember Nottingham used to use this platform a lot and for a time both Ebbw V and Notts used it but not anymore. Holyhead which also starts at Cardiff, I have seen on Platform 0 a few times too but not for ages, back in the days when most were 158's.



 

[Hafren]

I'm not completely sure about the arrangements for Platform 0, but if it's non-accessible by arriving passenger trains, that would have minimised the need for signalling changes when the line was upgraded as a platform line.

The trains that terminate at Carmarthen have a lot of padding on arrival. The Milford services give a better indication of the working arrival time. Because of the AB sections, an arrival from Swansea would probably need to pass Carmarthen Junction (about 2 minutes before CMN) before the next train can pass Ferryside - plus a further 2 minutes to allow for the bell codes to be sent and the route to be set up for the next train to pass Ferryside.

Before the SPT^▸ (Signal Post Telephone), the late afternoon Cardiff-Abergavenny service then went ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) to Pontypool to form a local service to Cardiff. Since Dec05 it's gone ECS all the way back to Cardiff. The 2007 diagrams (most recent I've seen) show it as then forming the 17:38 - obviously not the case now. (Around 2006 or so, the Holyhead service formed the 17:38 as a 158, so perhaps the ECS formed the Maesteg.) On weekdays the non-HoW^‡(resolve) Swanline diagram only runs off-peak, and I suspect it is used in the valleys during the peaks, hence it often being a 150, but it sometimes seems to be a 153, which would probably need to be swapped if the diagram also forms Valleys work. (The only 153s I've seen in the Valleys are Cardiff Bay and Coryton/City. I doubt they're cleared or driver-trained for the upper reaches.)

It's intriguing that Pontypool still has a 2-hourly service; all other stations between Newport and Shrewsbury went to at least hourly from Dec 05. It serves a fairly populated area, but then it is a bit out of town.

[Jez]

Pontypool and New Inn doesnt seem to be very well used which is probabaly down to the limited service there. As well at the xx20 services every 2 hours I think the 8.50, 15.50 and 17.50 from Cardiff also call there which means sometimes a 30 minute gap followed by a 90 minute gap.

I wonder if they would ever incorporate the Pembroke Docks into the Manc-West Wales timetable. Since we have 2 trains more or less leaving Swansea at the same time, and now with the Pembs train running fast from Swansea to Carmarthen they does seem to duplicate each other. If they were to run say a hourly Manc-Carmarthen service with hourly extension to Milford as they currently do plus an hourly extension to Pembroke Dock.  They would need 2 additional diagrams on the Manchesters which hopefully could be 2 x 158's if there werent any spare 175s. The spare 153s could then be used for additional swanlines or Heart of Wales services or at least extra capacity on the current services. I suppose if they were struggling a pair of 153's could be used on one Manchester diagram. I travelled back from Crewe-Cardiff once and a 153 isnt bad for long distance. Better than a 150 and definately better than a pacer. There must be a need for the 2 West Wales services tho otherwise they wouldnt run them both, but if it was currently a 2 car 175 and a 153, if it was replaced by a 3 car 175 it would be almost the same capacity for passenger useage.

Summer Saturdays I saw a 153 on the Valleys but didnt notice which service it was running. A pacer is sometimes used on the off peak swanline so I guess it could be used for the valleys before/afterwards. Weekdays I guess it could go straight on the valleys once it arrives into Cardiff around 16.20. Im sure someone mentioned a pacer once being used on HOW line but im not sure.

Speaking of the 153s, one that was running the 12.05 Swansea-Pembroke was a refurbished unit with the new seats etc. So far ive only travelled on a 175 refurbished set, and havent even seen a 158 refurbished yet. High time the 158's were refurbished, some still have the old Wales and West seats/carpet.
 

[Hafren]

Pacers sometimes appear on the Swanline/HoW^‡(resolve) journeys, but they are usually swapped at Swansea so that a 153 covers the HoW part. I suppose the alternative would be to run the Pacer as far as the Carmarthen crews' limit, i.e. Llanwrtyd/Llandrindod, and swap sets there.

The first and last Pembroke circuits are Manchester services, which is a good start. The problem would be in the up direction, where there would be a long wait to take up the Manchester path - this is fine for the morning service, but during the day it would make things very inefficient. The next step might be to extend the 1809 from SWA^» (Swansea - next trains) to PMD in lieu of the 1751, as the return journey from Carmarthen doesn't prbably doesn't need to be a 175 at that time of night, but things would need to be shuffled around quite a lot then because my understanding is that Pembroke 153 currently ends up on the Fishguard night service and then Heart of Wales the next day, which would be a waste of a 175.

I travelled on a refurb 153 in November - pity the (airline) seat spacing hasn't changed!

I was thinking that the Pacer layout might be a good basis for the successor to the 153s. The 153s are useful for rural lines and the like, where a 2-car set would be seen as a waste, but the luggage/toilet area is very tight - with a few bikes and a lot of luggage things become very cramped. And most of the lightly-loaded routes have occasional busy days, and a 153 doesn't have much standing space. And if an accessible toilet is required that's even more space taken up. A Pacer-size train, i.e. between a 'normal' 1 and 2 car length, would be less of a waste than a full-size 2-car set, but would still have a bit more space for 'flexible' areas for luggage/cycles/standing, compliant toilet etc. As long as it's fitted out for longer journeys, with decent seats and some tables etc.

[Jez]

Yes I think the pacer layout would be good too. Its a pity there isnt more space between the seats on 153's.  Any refurbished 158's out yet? Many of them still havent the ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) colours on them. All the 175's have and they havent been part of the fleet as long as 158's have!

A 158 was on one of the Manchesters yesterday - not really unusual on a weekend or on a Weekday recently. Could be because some 175's are out being refurbished.

I was planning on travelling to Manchester for something one Sunday but im quite surprised the Sunday timetable from Port Talbot/Neath to Manchester is so bad! According to my timetable the first direct Neath to Manchester on Sunday is the 11.43 arriving into Manchester at 16.15! Even driving to Cardiff and catching the train there and I wouldnt arrive until 12.15! Thankfully my plans have changed and im planning on a Saturday where the earliest from Port Talbot I believe is the 0601 which comes from Carmarthen via the district line and misses Neath. But it got me thinking, do people not use the trains early on a Sunday hence the poor service? Its not showing any trains on the timetable that could connect into trains at Cardiff either.

I definately think a good plan for when Maesteg becomes half hourly would be for the Swanlines to terminate at either Port Talbot or Bridgend and become hourly too. Wth the extra service between Bridgend and Cardiff there would be a 15 minute service when you include the Manchesters and London trains.  If Swanline terminated at Port Talbot, Pyle would have to be added to the Manchesters.

[Jez]

I noticed the 175s and 158s seemed to be used on services they wouldnt normally be used on today. The 171x from Cardiff to Cheltenham Spa was a 175 (3 car I think), so there must have been a 175 on one of the daytime Maesteg-Cheltenham diagrams today.

The 1650 from Cardiff-Manchester was a 2 car 158, which fortunately didnt seem to be that heavily used, not at Cardiff anyway. I also noticed some 158's on Maesteg-Cheltenham services and a pacer on one of the swanlines, the one which tends to be a 150, so not sure if there was a lack of 150s today for some reason. The Ebbw Vale's seemed to be 4 car 150s as usual for Saturdays. There was also a 158 on the sidings at Canton.  I travelled back on the 1704 Milford which was a 175 and very heavily used with almost every seat taken. It wasnt a refurbished set which highlighted just how in need this fleet were of a refresh!

[Jez]

Yesterday I was travelling from Port Talbot to Bristol, used the 0948 off Port Talbot to Paddington and intended to connect at Cardiff Central for the 10.30 Portsmouth train. Between Pyle and Bridgend the train seemed to slow right down, we were nearly 10 mins late leaving Bridgend, no information as to why given. Slow again after Bridgend, finally the train manager told us a stopping service in front was slowing us down and we'd arrive in Cardiff around 10 mins late. I knew it missed the 10.30 then. We arrived into Cardiff nearly 20 mins late, and then were further delayed by people getting onto the train going home from the previous England V Wales match. I decided to stay on until Bristol Parkway rather than wait for the 11.00 Taunton at Cardiff. Finally arrived into Bristol Parkway around 20 mins late, missed the 11.20 Weymouth service by around a few seconds, I was quite disappointed they didnt wait for passengers from the South Wales train to get over the bridge, even running over the bridge I wasnt in time. The platform staff just said they cannot hold trains, but it was already a few mins late anyway. So ended up using the Crosscountry service (which I didnt want to use) but had no choice as next FGW^▸ (First Great Western) service to BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) was nearly an hour away. So all in all it was worth me going to Parkway as I arrived into BTM around 15 mins before the Taunton service would have, and around 15/20 mins late overall.

Everything went much smoother on the way back.  Im assuming it was either a Maesteg service or the 0910 Swanline that was holding us up. But expected us to speed up after Bridgend as Swanline makes no stops there.

[anthony215]

  sometime if the  09:10 swanline service is delayed after it comes down from shrewsbury if teh trains doenst arrive til 09:10 or later they tend to hold it til afer the london train has gone and dispatch the swanline  about 4/5 minutes after it. This is all well and good apart from the people wanting to catch the swanline service at the swanline stations between Neath & Bridgend  who dont know about the delay unless they  contact national rail enquiries as none of the stations with the exception of Llansamlet have information screens

I know a few people who have been put off catching the 09:45 cardiff train from Pyle because  of its unreliability.

I fi have to travel around that time i rather pay at least ^1.20 more and get the swansea train to port talbot and double back on myself

[Jez]

One of the Manchesters yesterday - think it was the 1555 off Swansea and therefore 20.30 back from Manchester to Cardiff - was 2 x 158's. Im guessing this was meant to be a 3 car 175 so they used 2 158s to avoid overcrowding.

Last weekend I travelled back from Manchester to Cardiff on Saturday night - got the 19.30 back and it was a 158. They are used lots on weekends.

[Hafren]

One of the Manchesters yesterday - think it was the 1555 off Swansea and therefore 20.30 back from Manchester to Cardiff - was 2 x 158's. Im guessing this was meant to be a 3 car 175 so they used 2 158s to avoid overcrowding.

There was an event at the stadium yesterday... I don't keep up with such things and I don't know what time it would have finished, but perhaps they were expecting crowds around that time.

[Jez]

Yes I think Swansea were playing at 1pm so im guessing a lot of people would be getting trains back between 3.30pm-4pm.

[Jez]

Yesterday the Manchester and Holyhead trains seemed to be leaving Cardiff Central 10-15 minutes earlier, apparently due to essential engineering works in the Newport area. This meant the Milford/Carmarthen services were terminating in Cardiff and the Manchester's were starting from there. I travelled on the 11.55 Swansea-Cardiff which terminated at 12.45 and then went on to form the 130x Holyhead (3 car 175). 

I also notice a 153 is still on Cardiff Bay - however it was replaced by a 142 at some point yesterday.

Also one of the swanlines was a 175 yesterday - the one that doesnt go to/from Shrewsbury, this could be due to less 175's needed on the Manchester/Holyheads and to free up the 150 that would normally be used on swanline to be used on the valleys/ebbw vale/maesteg etc.

[anthony215]

ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) seemed to swap the class 175 which was on the 09:14 Cardiff - Swansea swanline yesterday with a class 143  at some point during the day , which i saw departing from Swansea at 15:10. Also another class 143 was working the Swansea - Pembroke Dock services.

The 05:19 Shrewsbury - Llandrindod - Swansea - Cardiff service was  30 minutes late yesterday also  Also it seems a number of the Heart of wales services were delayed yesterday which wasnt helped by the 2 railtours which were also using the heart of wales line.

Finally ATW also seemed to have train crew problems yesterday as the 14:00 from Swansea to Carmarthen was acutally 40 minutes late although it was only 15 late when i saw it later at Port Talbot.

A number of the milford haven services were running to Holyhead instead of manchester yesterday and the 11:01 Cardiff - Fishguard Hbr service was  routed via the Llandore curve instead of the Swansea District Line

[Jez]

I noticed the early HOW/Swanline was running late. Think it was a 153 as usual.

The swanline that left Swansea at 11.10 was a 175 so it must have got swapped at Cardiff. Perhaps it went onto the 1238 Manchester service and then the pacer formed the 13.14 Swanline.  The 13.04 Cardiff-Carmarthen service was showing as delayed when I arrived into Cardiff - the announcement said it was due to a lack of available train crew.

The West Wales services into Swansea and Cardiff were only advertised as running as far as Cardiff on the departure screens and the trains themselves. If a lot of them extended to Holyhead it was seen as 2 seperate journeys so anyone travelling from Bridgend to Hereford for example would have had to get off the train when it terminated in Cardiff and back on again when it was announced as ready to board for the Holyhead service.