South Wales local services - Pembroke, Fishguard, Swanline, etc.

[whole diary]

[Hafren]

Sometimes the xx:05 Pembrokes do use P4, but often they share with the xx:00 at P3. It's convenient for passengers connecting from London trains, but does cause confusion, as they're usually unlocked just before the xx:00 arrives, giving Carmarthen passengers the chance to pile on. The CIS^▸ (Customer Information System) seems to have no understanding of top train working, or of splits (thinking of some P6/7 usage at CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains)). At Cardiff, they've got around it to an extent by splittnig 3 and 4 into A and B, although some passengers still wait at the middle for 3A/3B services - but always useful for getting a seat at busy times, because one can wait near the stopping point and be on board before the masses are on.

The 1555 was quite busy, but not excessively so; it looked like every pair of seats was occupied, so many had to sit next to someone (horror!) but there were quite a lot of free seats, so a fairly healthy loading. I got off at Bridgend, but it was probably a bit cosy from Cardiff (assuming it wasn't swapped); I'm not sure which 175 variant normally forms that one. It would be nice to have 3 cars on all the 175s; since the standard timetable started (5 years ago now!) the Holyheads have taken the pressure off the Marches a bit. I haven't been up the Marches since then, but I have memories of ridiculously crowded 2-car 158s even at "off-peak" times. Generally it seems that 3-car sets are concentrated on the Cardiff peaks, but long-distance traffic creates additional peaks in the conventional off-peak times: in the end, no diagram is ideal for 2 cars.

I'd guess both 158s and 175s are quite tightly used: 158s have to be used on anything that goes on the Cambrian lines, and therefore also the Brum-Holyheads, and ideally a 158 or 175 should be used on all the Marches and other long-distance services. That doesn't leave much room for low availability.

[Jez]

Yes it is easier at Cardiff with 3a/4a and 3b/4b. I always wait at the end of platform 3a if im catching the West Wales service back from Cardiff! Its amazing how many people dont tho, also amazing how many people try to pile onto the terminating Portsmouth train despite them announcing clearly over the tannoy its not for public use! Actually it wouldnt hurt for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to extend a few Portsmouth trains to Swansea and beyond, however im guessing that would cause problems with ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))). And also would mean extra trains for FGW to run them further than Cardiff, so perhaps now such a great idea then! 

I didnt realise the 2 hourly Holyhead was introduced with the standard timetable of Dec 2005. I assumed some Cardiff trains always went to Holyhead, wasnt sure if the frequency might have increased. I knew before December 2005 and the arrival of the 175's the Manchester service started at Cardiff with a few running through from West Wales/Swansea direct but ive only really used the Marches line more regularly since about 2006. Yes the Holyheads do take pressure off that line especially as its limited stop between Hereford and Shrewsbury, calling at just Ludlow mainly.

Im guessing Cardiff-Portsmouth is a busier train than Cardiff-Manchester tho and the Portsmouth train could ideally do with a 4 cars per train. Im using the Cardiff-Portsmouth service on Saturday to travel to Bath (1030 off Cardiff), im hoping it wont be overcrowded, I havent pre booked anything but I will connect off the 125 that arrives into Cardiff at 1022 so its the 8 minute connection time that bothers me if the 125 is late!

I remember not so long ago 158's used to run most of the Holyhead services from Cardiff but this appears to have changed now and 90% of them, if not all of them are 175s.

I agree 158's are not so bad on long distance, better than 150s or 153's! And ive seen them, before now, run the Swansea - Manchester service.

[anthony215]

The south wales - Manchester Piccadily  service  is always busy and really should have 3 carriages all of the time between Swansea & Manchester.

Cardiff - Holyhead are busy but are ok for 2 carriage units apart from during the summer months when they need to be strengthed to at least 4 carriages epecially over the north wales coast.

A good idea i have come up with is to increase the heart of wales service to every 2 hours and run it through to Crewe by merging it with the Shrewsbury - Crewe stopping service. The line is very busy between Swansea - Llandeilo & Llandrindod - Shrewsbury

[Hafren]

I didnt realise the 2 hourly Holyhead was introduced with the standard timetable of Dec 2005. I assumed some Cardiff trains always went to Holyhead, wasnt sure if the frequency might have increased.

I think originally there was a daily Holyhead-Cardiff arriving around 10am, and an evening return journey, with W&B stabling a set at Holyhead overnight. Then at some point I think the Assembly paid for a second one, but my memory is a bit hazy on that. Then the North Wales Coast transferred from North Western to Wales & Borders, which made it easier as a the 175s were eventually transferred to W&B/ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))), and it became more convenient to run through trains regularly as the same operator would be running the Marches and the Coast.

Im guessing Cardiff-Portsmouth is a busier train than Cardiff-Manchester tho and the Portsmouth train could ideally do with a 4 cars per train. Im using the Cardiff-Portsmouth service on Saturday to travel to Bath (1030 off Cardiff), im hoping it wont be overcrowded, I havent pre booked anything but I will connect off the 125 that arrives into Cardiff at 1022 so its the 8 minute connection time that bothers me if the 125 is late!

If you are a running a little bit late and it looks like the 1030 has gone, you could try staying on to Bristol Parkway. Double check the timetable, especially on a weekend, but I think it would connect into the hourly service on the Gloucester-Westbury axis - I've used it to connect with the Brighton service, which is part of that pattern. (2 car and extremely crowded from TM^‡(resolve)!) That would save waiting for the Taunton train and making another tightish connection at Temple Meads. However, if you're more than a bit late, you might miss the Parkway connection and in that case it's better to catch the Cardiff-Taunton anyway.

The 1030 shouldn't be too bad from Cardiff - it's usually at Bristol that they become crushed. Waiting near the where front set of doors will be is of course the way to ensure you're one of the first on. I suspect at that time on a Saturday it will fill up.

[Jez]

The south wales - Manchester Piccadily  service  is always busy and really should have 3 carriages all of the time between Swansea & Manchester.

Cardiff - Holyhead are busy but are ok for 2 carriage units apart from during the summer months when they need to be strengthed to at least 4 carriages epecially over the north wales coast.

A good idea i have come up with is to increase the heart of wales service to every 2 hours and run it through to Crewe by merging it with the Shrewsbury - Crewe stopping service. The line is very busy between Swansea - Llandeilo & Llandrindod - Shrewsbury

I agree that Swansea-Manchester part should be 3 car. Dont go West of Swansea often so not sure how heavily used the trains are around Llanelli/Carmarthen/Haverfordwest. The North Wales Coast line does have the hourly Manchester-Llandudno service which I think is always a 3 car 175. But during Summer Saturdays I can imagine Rhyl/Prestatyn/Llandudno being very busy.

Good idea extending the HOW to Crewe. I think the evening HOW service from Swansea used to go to Crewe if I remember rightly. Although like we have discussed before im not sure if its possible for HOW to be every 2 hours.

[Jez]

I didnt realise the 2 hourly Holyhead was introduced with the standard timetable of Dec 2005. I assumed some Cardiff trains always went to Holyhead, wasnt sure if the frequency might have increased.

I think originally there was a daily Holyhead-Cardiff arriving around 10am, and an evening return journey, with W&B stabling a set at Holyhead overnight. Then at some point I think the Assembly paid for a second one, but my memory is a bit hazy on that. Then the North Wales Coast transferred from North Western to Wales & Borders, which made it easier as a the 175s were eventually transferred to W&B/ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))), and it became more convenient to run through trains regularly as the same operator would be running the Marches and the Coast.

Im guessing Cardiff-Portsmouth is a busier train than Cardiff-Manchester tho and the Portsmouth train could ideally do with a 4 cars per train. Im using the Cardiff-Portsmouth service on Saturday to travel to Bath (1030 off Cardiff), im hoping it wont be overcrowded, I havent pre booked anything but I will connect off the 125 that arrives into Cardiff at 1022 so its the 8 minute connection time that bothers me if the 125 is late!

If you are a running a little bit late and it looks like the 1030 has gone, you could try staying on to Bristol Parkway. Double check the timetable, especially on a weekend, but I think it would connect into the hourly service on the Gloucester-Westbury axis - I've used it to connect with the Brighton service, which is part of that pattern. (2 car and extremely crowded from TM^‡(resolve)!) That would save waiting for the Taunton train and making another tightish connection at Temple Meads. However, if you're more than a bit late, you might miss the Parkway connection and in that case it's better to catch the Cardiff-Taunton anyway.

The 1030 shouldn't be too bad from Cardiff - it's usually at Bristol that they become crushed. Waiting near the where front set of doors will be is of course the way to ensure you're one of the first on. I suspect at that time on a Saturday it will fill up.

Ah right so the Holyhead service was a bit like the Premier service that is currently running - one down in the morning and one back in the evening.

I thought about staying on until Bristol Parkway if the train is late, the 125 should arrive at 11.00 I think and the connection to Bath is 11.20, would get me into Bath at 12.05 which is around 25 mins late so not too bad.  Fingers crossed trhe 125 wont be late, it usually does run to time as it starts in Swansea and has a long turnaround time there. Its usually the other direction that it runs late.

[Jez]

Was thinking about the Manchester services and could one way of ensuring they were all 3 car from Swansea-Manchester be switching it to a Swansea-Manchester service. The Manchester and Milford services depart Swansea within around 5 mins of each other so its probabaly possible for the arriving service from Manchester to terminate and then run the service back again rather than continue to West Wales. Maybe the times could be slightly changed - there is a long wait at Cardiff Central on the down journey so possibly they could depart at 0000 rather than 0004?

In order for the Milford services to still have capacity perhaps and extra train every 2 hours could run as far as Carmarthen making it 2 trains per hour in total to Carmarthen/Llanelli. I guess a 150 or 153 could run the extra Carmarthen diagram.

Just an idea - could it work? Or is there something in the franchise agreement which says an hourly Carmarthen-Manchester service?

[Hafren]

It might be possible to terminate at SWA^» (Swansea - next trains) in the hours when there's a Pembroke train anyway; that way, the through service to Milford would remain.

When the SPT^▸ (Signal Post Telephone) draft first came out, they plan was for them all to terminate at Carmarthen, with a 2-hourly shuttle running thence to Milford. The idea to extend the Manchesters came because people complained about the lack of through trains at least as far as Swansea. Going at least as far as CMN might well be in the franchise agreement as a requirement following the introduction of the Dec05 timetable - I seem to remember it being at one of the key benefits that Arriva highlighted when the franchise started. They're usually quite busy west of Swansea (not usually as busy as furhter east) and giong by passengers on board and seat reservations there is significant through traffic. An hourly direct train to Cardiff is certainly an advantage, but 2-hourly might not be so bad.

I'd rather they didn't leave Cardiff earlier - if anything, later would be better to provide a better gap following FGW^▸ (First Great Western). They'd probably have to go quite a lot earlier in order to provide a suitable turnaround time; for a long-distance service there would be a significant minimum requirement. At Carmarthen (allowing for padding) a quick glance suggests they have about 15 minutes, which is probably the minimum. If they just had an hour's turnaround at SWA using existing timings, it would be a bit inefficient but could still allow for a bit of a reshuffle to make better use of the 3-car sets.

I'd like to have the Portsmouth-Cardiffs extended to SWA. At the moment they run close to the Paddingtons (very good for connections) so wouldn't be hugely useful. As an alternative, how about 2-hourly Manchester-Milford and 2-hourly Taunton-Swansea (connecting into the Pembrokes on the down). On the up it would leave 1 1/2 hour gaps from Carmarthen, so some sort of SWA-CMN shuttle might still be needed. This does, of course, mess up the standard pattern.

[matt473]

How's about a joint FGW^▸ (First Great Western) and ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) service between Swansea and Portsmouth so that Swanline has an increase in service whilst creating more through journey opportunities without over stretching resources.

In regards to increasing services on HOW, simples. Llandeilo to Bridgend service using the bay platform calling at Swanline stations connecting with the hst. Could even have every other service travelling via Swansea District line and oppening a few stations along the way inluding Morriston as has been looked into recently

[anthony215]

I don think that all of the services from Manchester which leave cardiff at 04 minutes past each hour should stop at Pyle off peak thus allowing the swanline services to leave a few minustes later from Cardiff and run non-stop between Bridgend & Port Talbot which should reduce journey times on that service from 1 hour 5 minutes to 1 hour exactly.

 The swanlines could be interworked with the Cardiff - Cheltenham services and run a hourly service and perhaps the services leaving Maesteg at 15 minutes past the hour should instead  should work via Llantwit Major.

Thisd should hopefully provide a path between Bridgend & Cardiff central on the mainline including stops at Pencoed etc for a fast service from West Wales to Cardiff via the swansea district route with a park & ride station at Llandarcy which may hekp reduce some traffice congestion on the M4.

 A service should operate between Swansea & Carmarthen every 30 minutes which can be done (just) even with the single track section at Gowerton where a loop can be installed if needed as a cheaper  temporary option to double tracking the section. Trains should  run to Milford Haven/Pemrboke Dock every 90 minutues with 6 trains per day through to Fishgaurd harbour with a new station at Fishguard & goodwick.

Now with some class 165/166 DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s coming from FGW^▸ (First Great Western) after crossrail & electrification maybe a few could come to ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) provided they are able to be cleared for the route  although i doubt they can be cleared for the pembroke dock branch particulary the curve at Narbeth. I deally these would be good for the Rhymney branch as i know they cannot be cleared to work north of Radyr same as with a class 158. 

If the wires do come to swansea then maybe swanline services should be worked by EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit)'S to free up to 2/3 DMU's to provide capcity elsewhere on the ATW network.

[Jez]

I wonder if a joint service between FGW^▸ (First Great Western) and ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) from Swansea-Portsmouth Harbour would be possible? If not I guess ATW could run the service.  Afterall it was a former Wessex service and only taken on by FGW when they merged with Wessex. Another option would be to extend the Swanlines to Bristol Temple Meads and change the Taunton service to terminate at Bristol Parkway instead of Cardiff. Swanline could then be hourly and the Cardiff-Bristol service would be run by ATW. This would provide a good direct service between Swansea-Bristol Temple Meads which I think is needed.

Changing the Swanline service to a Swansea-Cheltenham service is another option although Cheltenham run 2 trains every 3 hours I think so that would either need to be extended or the Swanline run a simular frequency of service.

[Jez]

I think what will form the 1605 Swansea-Carmarthen service is a 158 today. That would be the 11.30 from Manchester and traces back to the first Swansea-Manchester service at around 0645.

I hope the snow doesnt disrupt my planned trip to Bath tomorrow. I may get the train from my local station (which would involve the Swanline service!) rather than drive into town, at least that gives me a longer connection time at Cardiff for the Portsmouth train - around 12 mins I think.

[Jez]

Also looks like the 1710 Swanline went ahead of the 1655 Manchester which was 8 mins behind the Swanline and around half an hour late in total.

[Hafren]

If you're using Swanline to connect with the 1030, bear in mind that one comes from Shrewsbury at 5am so some scope for delay if the snow causes problems!

There appear to have been problems getting things going at Swansea and Carmarthen this morning. When I checked very early that things were running, the early SWA^» (Swansea - next trains)-PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) was about 40 late, but recovered a lot by Cardiff because it appears to be timed to allow a diversion via the Vale. I ended up aiming for the 8.28, but the delayed 7.58 was ready to go; delay was announced as being caused by track/signal problems delaying the set's arrival from the depot. It left once the 8.28 had arrived (on time) from Carmarthen, and the 8.28 ended up being a bit late behind it. Changed at Bridgend for Pencoed and the next one turned out to be the Milford-Manchester (7.45 SWA), running nearly empty being behind 2 HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train). Nothing on the Marches at that time.

I ended up in Cardiff and returned on the 17.38 which was... a 175!
The Maesteg service ended up being delayed; it was ready to go, had a green signal, closed the doors... and then I saw the conductor on the phone and then the doors were unlocked. The 17.35 Ebbw Vale was announced as leaving from P4, which didn't look good for the 17.38, but then they managed to magic up a 175, which arrived in front of the Maesteg and formed the 17.38, leaving about 7 late (announced as awaiting crew from another service). The 175 was useful... 2 late by Port Talbot, on time (possibly a minute early) at Swansea. Checking LDB, the Maesteg went abotu half an hour late, and the PAD-SWA was stuck behind that.

[Jez]

Thanks, I hadnt thought of that coming from the HOW line and being delayed. Oh well if its late or cancelled I will just have to get to Neath or Port Talbot by car ot bus and get the train there. Or if I end up getting the 11.30 Portsmouth it wont be the end of the world I guess. Wouldnt want to get a train any later than that tho.  I will certainly be checking the Live Departure Boards before travelling.

I wonder where that 17.38 175 came from? Obviously the 1900 fast train would have been that 175 as well then. That diagram would end in Cardiff. Was the 17xx Cardiff-Swansea service from Pad due to arrive on time before it was delayed behind the Maesteg train?