South Wales local services - Pembroke, Fishguard, Swanline, etc.

[whole diary]

[Jez]

Ideally we could do with an extra swanline eastbound in the morning, there is a huge gap between the first and second service. The first is too early for a 9am start in Cardiff and the second doesnt get there until after 10am. If the 0745 Manchester service was to start at Milford slightly early and thefore arrive into and depart Swansea earlier, at say 0735 (to leave a decent gap after the 0728), then it could call at all Swanline stations (it already calls at Pyle and Llanharan) and arrive into Cardiff around the same time as it does currently and be in time for workers to get to Cardiff for 9am.

I agree we definately could do with a later service from Swansea to Cardiff calling at all stations, particularly on a Friday and Saturday night as 10.30pm seems a bit too early for most people to leave Swansea on those evenings, worst on Saturday as it departs earlier around 22.20.

On sunday evenings the last service is at 23:30 so in my opinion I would like to see the 21:09 Pembroke Dock - Swansea service extended to Cardiff Central on weekdays as this would give a departure from Swansea to Cardiff at 23:28

Doesnt that unit go on to form the overnight Fishguard departing Swansea around 23.45 and then go onto the HOW 0436 the next day? If that was the case another unit would need to be sent from Cardiff.

[anthony215]

I think so although you could in fact attach another unit at Carmarthen, besides after electrification the swanline services should be cut back to Swansea and worked by emu's.

That said I wouldnt be surprised if we still see some unist running under the  wires from west wales to Cardiff so that they can visit canton depot unless ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) plan on taking over Llandore to service and fuel the dmu's based for west wales services

[Jez]

I think so although you could in fact attach another unit at Carmarthen, besides after electrification the swanline services should be cut back to Swansea and worked by emu's.

That said I wouldnt be surprised if we still see some unist running under the  wires from west wales to Cardiff so that they can visit canton depot unless ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) plan on taking over Llandore to service and fuel the dmu's based for west wales services

I hope the Manchester services continue at least as far as Swansea and run under the wires as it would be a shame not to have a direct service to Manchester from Swansea/Neath etc.

I think we will see a lot of changes.

[Rhydgaled]

I hope the Manchester services continue at least as far as Swansea and run under the wires as it would be a shame not to have a direct service to Manchester from Swansea/Neath etc.

If the Manchesters do run under the wires, then I hope they terminate at Swansea and are lengthened to 4-6 coaches (loco-hauled). Services from west of Swansea going via Swansea to Cardiff/Manchester would be a waste in my opinion, partly because a train of 4-6 coaches wouldn't be justified west of Swansea most of the time. The current service (slightly more than hourly) that has Swansea as an intermediate calling point on trains from S.W.Wales should be reduced to hourly, but running via the Swansea District Line with replacment Swansea services from both directions terminating at Swansea.

Everything using the line between Swansea and Briton Ferry (except Swanline, and perhaps services that combine with trains from Maesteg) should probably be at least 4 coaches, the only 2-car DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) on the route from Cardiff to Swansea should be between Britton Ferry and Cardiff (the hourly SDL express service from S.W.Wales to Cardiff/Bristol/Portsmouth).

[Jez]

I agree. It would be sense if there was this service pattern;

1 train per hour from Carmarthen to Cardiff via District line calling at Pembrey and Burry Port, Llanelli, Port Talbot Parkway, Bridgend and Cardiff Central.

1 train per hour from Swansea to London Paddington calling at Neath, Port Talbot, Bridgend, Cardiff, Newport, Bristol, Swindon, Reading and London Paddington.

1 train per hour from Swansea to Manchester calling at Neath, Port Talbot, Bridgend, Cardiff, Newport, etc

1 train per hour from Swansea to Cardiff calling at Llansamlet, Skewen, Neath, Briton Ferry, Baglan, Port Talbot, Pyle, Bridgend and Cardiff Central.   Id make Swanline hourly as its long overdue if they want to devlop it as a proper local service.

1 train per hour from Swansea to either Milford Haven or Pemb Dock providing them with a two hourly service each and Swansea to Carmarthen would have an hourly service. Calling at Gowerton, Llanelli, Pembray and Burry Port, Kidwelly, Ferryside, Carmarthen, Whitland and all stations west. Passengers from Carmarthen who wanted to travel further could use the district line service for Port Talbot/Bridgend/Cardiff. They would have to change at Swansea if they wanted Neath. Milford/Pembroke passengers would have to change at Swansea for services further afield, Pembroke passengers already need to do this most of the time.

Fishguard services would be as now with 1 from Cardiff via district and 2 per day from Cardiff via Swansea.

[Rhydgaled]

My service pattern would be:

Carmarthen/Llanelli - Llanelli/Swansea

• 1tph Carmarthen - Cardiff Central calling at Llanelli, Port Talbot Parkway, Bridgend and Cardiff Central* - worked by class 158 units

• 1tph Carmarthen - Swansea calling at all Stations - worked by class 150/2 units or 156s/153s
• 1tph Carmarthen - Swansea calling at Pembrey and Burry Port, Llanelli, Gowerton and Swansea - worked by class 156 units, 153s in multiple or 175s.
• Plus maybe 1tph local service from HOWL/Ammanford/Glanamman&Garnant to Swansea to connect with the SDL train at Llanelli

West Of Carmarthen

• 0.5tph Milford Haven / Fishguard** to Cardiff/Bristol (extension of above SDL service)
• 0.5tph Milford Haven - Swansea*** (extension of Carmarthen - Swansea services)
• 0.5tph Fishguard - Swansea*** (extension of Carmarthen - Swansea services)
• 0.5tph (1tph if it can be accelerated enough to path it) Pembroke Dock - Swansea (extension of Carmarthen - Swansea services)

Swansea - Neath

• 1tph Swansea - London Paddington calling at Neath, Port Talbot, Bridgend, Cardiff, Newport, Reading and London Paddington****
  
• 1tph Swansea - Ebbw Vale Parkway calling at all stations (hourly Swanline service)*****
• 1tph Swansea - Bristol Temple Meads calling at Neath, Port Talbot Parkway, Pyle, Bridgend and Cardiff Central (then taking path and stops of current Cardiff - Taunton)
• 1tph Swansea - Manchester calling at Neath, Port Talbot Parkway, Bridgend, Cardiff Central, Newport, Abergavenny, Hereford, Leominster, Ludow, Shrewsbury and selected stations to Manchester

Oddball Services

• 07:30 Carmarthen to English Destonation*&* (could originate at Milford Haven, and/or if the Manchesters are running to Swansea with LHCS^▸ (Locomotive Hauled Coaching Stock) go to Manchester instead of *&*) 6-Car LHCS to replace current IC125 worked Paddington service. This would travel via Swansea and call at all stations except Ferryside and Kidwelly and be a named train (I think the current name is 'The Red Dragon' and would keep it if so).
• A perfect mirror working to the above in the evening, would call at Swansea around 17:20, also named
• A named train, 'The Pembroke Coast Express' departing Pembroke Dock at around 10am running limited-stop to *&*. This is also a 6-Car LHCS to replace current IC125 worked Paddington service and would run during the summer timetable, starting from Carmarthen in winter
• Again there would be a mirror working to the above, also named 'The Pembroke Coast Express'
• On summer weekends (and maybe Mondays and Fridays, but probably not days in between), one of the Pembroke Dock - Swansea diagrams would be replaced by extended Manchester services with 6-car LHCS, or by back workings from the above IC125 replacement services

If not all the above can be pathed I think it is the Swansea - Manchester that should go, partly because it would still be diesel and partly because I think the Bristol service is more important.

* As you had it Jez but without the P&B.P. stop. Ideally, if the Portsmouth - Cardiff service isn't terminated at Bath after electrification, I'd have this service continue to Portsmouth.
** Either this would be the entire Fishguard service and Milford line passengers would have to change at Swansea/Carmarthen for Cardiff or the SDL runs would be Milford services most of the day with one going to Fishguard instead, to meet the ferry, with Milford line getting an extra Swansea train instead.
*** Would be hourly to Milford and not at all to Fishguard if Fishguard gets the SDL service every two hours
**** The Cardiff - Paddingtons in between the Swanseas would continue to call at Bristol Parkway, Swindon and Didcot
***** I would have said Cheltenham Spa instead of Ebbw Vale but the lack of wires prevents it
*&* Either Bristol Temple Meads, Portsmouth Harbour or London Waterloo (via Bristol T.M.)

[Jez]

I agree. It would be sense if there was this service pattern;

1 train per hour from Carmarthen to Cardiff via District line calling at Pembrey and Burry Port, Llanelli, Port Talbot Parkway, Bridgend and Cardiff Central.

1 train per hour from Swansea to London Paddington calling at Neath, Port Talbot, Bridgend, Cardiff, Newport, Bristol, Swindon, Reading and London Paddington.

1 train per hour from Swansea to Manchester calling at Neath, Port Talbot, Bridgend, Cardiff, Newport, etc

1 train per hour from Swansea to Cardiff calling at Llansamlet, Skewen, Neath, Briton Ferry, Baglan, Port Talbot, Pyle, Bridgend and Cardiff Central.   Id make Swanline hourly as its long overdue if they want to devlop it as a proper local service.

1 train per hour from Swansea to either Milford Haven or Pemb Dock providing them with a two hourly service each and Swansea to Carmarthen would have an hourly service. Calling at Gowerton, Llanelli, Pembray and Burry Port, Kidwelly, Ferryside, Carmarthen, Whitland and all stations west. Passengers from Carmarthen who wanted to travel further could use the district line service for Port Talbot/Bridgend/Cardiff. They would have to change at Swansea if they wanted Neath. Milford/Pembroke passengers would have to change at Swansea for services further afield, Pembroke passengers already need to do this most of the time.

Fishguard services would be as now with 1 from Cardiff via district and 2 per day from Cardiff via Swansea.

As well as those services above I would also have these "extra" services in addition to the standard timetable proposed;

Id keep the first 2 trains of the day from Carmarthen to Manchester, (but both would run via Swansea not the first via the district as now). They would depart Carmarthen around 0515 and 0645. Id keep the 1630 and 1830 departures off Manchester as a through service to Carmarthen (wouldnt send the 1830 via the district line either).

Id have 2 trains per day in each direction from Paddington-Carmarthen - currently i believe its one a day.  Also id keep the current summer Saturday Paddington-Pembrokes. 

So there would be 4 trains a day in total in both directions that would run as Carmarthen-Swansea-Cardiff.  All other Carmarthen-Cardiff direct trains would run via the district and therefore wouldnt call at Swansea and Neath.

The Heart of Wales line id have as a stand alone service. Assuming no timetable changes 2 units would be required to run the service. One would be stabled at Shrewsbury overnight and one come off the overnight fishguard as now, which the night before could start from Cardiff Central in order to move a set to Swansea. There would be good connections at Llanelli further West and from Swansea further East so passengers can continue journeys from HOW stations with as little disruption as possible.

As Rhydgaled suggets, id probably extend the Swanline to run as far as Bristol Temple Meads, and have it call (after Cardiff) at Newport, Severn Tunnel Junction, Patchway and Filton Abbey Wood. Possibly a few trains a day could extend as far as Taunton, Exeter and/or Paignton if there were paths. A seperate hourly Bristol TM^‡(resolve)-Taunton service would then be run to compensate the loss of running to Taunton on the Cardiff stopping service. Possibly this could start at Bristol Parkway and provide a good connection for passengers there from South Wales.

Im not sure about running Portsmouth services as a through service from West Wales, as the Swansea-London services provide good connections at Cardiff into/out of the Portsmouth Harbour service (assuming the London train is on time in both directions!).

[Jez]

I noticed yesterday it was back to a 153 running the Cardiff Bay train, its been a pacer when ive seen it recently.

[phile]

It has not got to be a 153 but just something to replace Bubbles depending on availability on the day.   A 153 is the most suitable.

[Jez]

I travelled on 175002 today, first time since its been back i think. It was on the 1514 Cardiff-Swansea (which then went on to form the 17.10 Swansea-Holyhead.

I picked up a copy of the new timetables for West Wales and Maesteg to Cardiff and South Wales to North Wales and Manchester from the station today, they arent on display yet (at least not at Port Talbot), I had to ask for them.

One thing I noticed was on Saturdays the HOW service leaving Cardiff around 08xx still has Swanline stops on a Saturday whilst during the week they have moved to the Milford Haven service. More and more ive noticed the Saturday timetable being very different to the weekday one when at one time they were very simular.

Does anyone know whether the daytime Swanline diagram on weekdays that starts with the 0914 from Cardiff-Swansea, will be formed of a 175 all day. Or will they just swap the set at Cardiff for a 175 at 13.14 so its moved to Swansea in time for the 1510 service to Chester? I guess it depends if that 175 is coming off another service, possibly a North Wales-South Wales one? I guess the weekday 1710 from Swansea will return to being a 153 or 150. Today the 175 was fairly busy on the Cardiff-Swansea run and i imagine it would be even busier on the journey from Swansea-Cardiff.  So it would feel like a step back in some ways if its to be a 153 again.  I know on Saturdays its often been a 150 or even a 153+153 on occasions, but a good proportion of the time its a single 153 and very busy.

[anthony215]

The 17:10 Swansea - Cardiff is terrible when worked by a single class 153 which simply cannot cope with a full load and struggles between stops and often delayes the 17:28 Swansea - London Paddington hst behind it.

I am glad ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) got ride of the Pontyclun stop on the 17:30 service though.

 I am certainly glad  the 08:09 Cardiff - Shrewsbury services has been sped up on weekdays as it frequently is delayed before it even gets to Swansea & the 07:50 from Cardiff to Milford Haven should be re-timed to depart 5 minutes earlier at 07:45 arriving into Swansea at 08:48.

[phile]

The Saturday services are different .    Following a change in stopping patterns to speed up trains on the Marches with some of them leaving Cardiff for West earlier (at XX 39) and preceding the London from Cardiff, the passengers of which would have formerly connected at Swansea for West Wales.   With the new pattern they change at Cardiff from the London terminator, but on a Saturday there is only an hourly London service so the times West of Cardiff were left unaltered..

[Jez]

I noticed that Skewen and Briton Ferry now have departure screens on the platforms which is useful for passengers if the train is delayed so they know whats happening and how long the delay is.

Not sure if Baglan and Pyle now have them but i know Llansamlet have had screens for a long while. Id have thought with Pyle being the busiest of the Swanline stations they would have had them first!

Things seem to be back getting back to normal again now after the summer peak as today i spotted a single 153 on a pembroke dock diagram. This morning the 06xx off Cardiff to Pembroke/Fishguard was a pair of 150s! Perhaps the 153s had low availability and 150s covered.

[phile]

Good job perhaps as the weather was great and the schools don't go back until to-morrow.   At least in our place.

[bobm]

Don't go back til Thursday here...  Grrr... flipping kids