South Wales local services - Pembroke, Fishguard, Swanline, etc.

[whole diary]

[Jez]

I used the Swansea to Pembroke Dock service for the first time today on a day trip to Tenby. I noticed that 2 of the 3 diagrams for the service today were pacers - im quite surprised that they make up such a big part of this service. My return journey was 2x 153's tho.

Also im surprised they can get a 125 train down the Pembroke Dock line for the Summer Saturday services, its quite narrow with lots of bends.

[Hafren]

Last summer there was always one Pacer on Saturdays, but it was on the diagram that only went to Pembroke Dock in the morning and evening, being displaced by HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) and limited to Carmarthen during the busier part of the day. I imagine the same is booked this year; the second (hopefully not booked!) one must have been "cosy", as it must have ended up on either the 0950 SWA^» (Swansea - next trains)-PMD or 1635ish PMD-SWA, both of which are useful for day trips and can be quite busy.

[Jez]

One pacer was on the 1005 from Swansea to Pembroke Dock which I travelled on. It was quite full from Swansea and completely full and some people were standing after Carmarthen.

The other Pacer would have been on the 11.00ish from Pembroke Dock to Swansea (and would have formed the 14.05 back) as we saw it when getting off the train in Tenby around 11.40ish.

The train I got back was 2x 153's - this would have been the 15.00ish from Pembroke Dock arriving into Swansea around 17.25. Im not sure where this diagram was going after this as there was a 150 on platform 1 ready to form the 1750 to Pembroke. Im guessing the 153's might have been forming the 1810ish service on the Heart of Wales line as I think units get swapped between the Pembs/Heart of Wales/Swanline services.

[Hafren]

AFAIK^▸ (as far as I know) the evening Heart of Wales is formed off the preceding arrival from Shrewsbury - that route swaps with Swanline a lot, but not really with anything else, except perhaps on Sundays.

Being a BH Monday, I suppose nothing is running to a "standard" diagram, and with a reasonably sunny bank holiday it must have been hard to find enough Sprinters to cover everything. I think the regular Saturday Pacer is there just to ensure there are enough Sprinters on the other journeys to double up the 153s. I've never noticed two Pacers out west on the same day though. On a hot Saturday in July or August a Pacer on the 09.50 (SO) would be nasty. I suppose it's better than a single 153, which would appear on at least one diagram on a normal weekday!

[Jez]

Be interesting to see the Pembs/Heart of Wales/Swanline Diagrams.

Im guessing one diagram is

0910 SWA^» (Swansea - next trains)-CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains) (which is an extension of the early morning Heart of Wales)
11.14 CDF-SWA
13.10 SWA-CDF
15.14 CDF-SWA
17.10 SWA-CDF

Any ideas where that unit goes when it arrives in Cardiff around 18.15 ish?

The other Swanline diagram im guessing is;

09.14 CDF-SWA
11.10 SWA-CDF
13.14 CDF-SWA
15.10 SWA-CDF

Not sure where it goes after it arrives in Cardiff around 16.15 as the other swanlines are an extention of an Ebbw Vale-Cardiff service and incorporated into the Manchester-West Wales services.

Im guessing the 18xx service from Swansea along the Heart of Wales forms the early morning service back the next day and then goes onto Swanline.

[Hafren]

Be interesting to see the Pembs/Heart of Wales/Swanline Diagrams.

Im guessing one diagram is

0910 SWA^» (Swansea - next trains)-CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains) (which is an extension of the early morning Heart of Wales)
11.14 CDF-SWA
13.10 SWA-CDF
15.14 CDF-SWA
17.10 SWA-CDF

It used to be, but it seems to be a bit more complicated now - the winter timetable some additional interworking, with the late morning SHR^» (Shrewsbury - next trains)-SWA extended into the 13.10 SWA-CDF - so one can assume in the other direction the 11.14 CDF-SWA would lay over at Swansea and then form the 13.xx SWA-SHR. I haven't checked whether this still happens in the summer timetable, or on Saturdays.

If that interworking goes on, we have something like:
04xx SWA-SHR (I think this works off the Fishguard)
??am SHR-SWA into
1310 SWA-CDF
1514 CDF-SWA
1710 SWA-CDF

Any ideas where that unit goes when it arrives in Cardiff around 18.15 ish?

There's probably not much else for a 153 to do by then; probably back to the depot. Going by the above, it's started its day on night Fishguard work, and at Shrewsbury going by the 'old' diagram, so it hasn't been in Canton the night before.

09.14 CDF-SWA
11.10 SWA-CDF
13.14 CDF-SWA
15.10 SWA-CDF
Not sure where it goes after it arrives in Cardiff around 16.15 as the other swanlines are an extention of an Ebbw Vale-Cardiff service and incorporated into the Manchester-West Wales services.

Hmmm... I found some old diagrams that showed this one as a 150, which was used to provide extra capacity in the Valleys during the peaks. However, now this one seems to swap with a Heart of Wales diagram in the middle of the day, there'll be 153s involved on this diagram as well, so it won't be venturing into the Valleys these days. (Assuming I'm thinking it through properly - it's getting late!)

Im guessing the 18xx service from Swansea along the Heart of Wales forms the early morning service back the next day and then goes onto Swanline.

I would guess it forms other workings 'up north' the next day, and something that's been 'up north' comes down on the early service the next day. 153s are used on Shrewsbury-Crewe locals, and on the Conwy Valley in the winter, and the Heart of Wales services would be used to swap sets between Shrewsbury and Cardiff. Sometimes a 150 turns up on the morning SHR-CDF service, presumably depending on what Shrewsbury needs to send back to Canton that day. I've even seen a 3 car combination on one or two occasions - must be a nice spacious surprise for local travellers!

Last time I checked, ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) only had something like 8 153s but still they manage to pop up everywhere!

[Jez]

I checked and the mid morning Heart of Wales service into Swansea still forms the 13.10 Swanline to Cardiff and is advertised as a through service.  I suppose it makes sense of the Heart of Wales and Swanlines to be made 1 service where the timings fit together.

Yes the 153's seem to turn up everywhere - Ditto the 150s - they seem to be used on most services, Pembs/Heart of Wales/Ebbw Vale/Maesteg-Cheltenham/Borderlines/Conway Valley/Crewe-Shrewsbury/Swanlines.

I think there are a lot more 150s than 153's tho - I think there are 8 153's.

On Saturday the Ebbw Vale service is usually 4 cars - 2 x 150s per service- so I am wondering how on earth there is enough trains on a Sat especially when extra capacity is needed on the Pembs/Heart of Wales during the summer.

[Hafren]

On Saturday the Ebbw Vale service is usually 4 cars - 2 x 150s per service- so I am wondering how on earth there is enough trains on a Sat especially when extra capacity is needed on the Pembs/Heart of Wales during the summer.

I would guess that's why a Pacer needs to go west on Saturdays. In theory, without commuters, there could be fewer 4-car formations in the Valleys on Saturdays, but those routes are increasingly busy with leisure traffic - Queen Street always seems busy on a Saturday afternoon - so it looks like it's harder to free up a few Sprinters. Before the Dec 05 change, there was usually a 3-car working to Pembroke on SumSats on the 18xx PMD-whereveritwentbackthen, which was then a key day trippers' return train, and I think that diagram would also have covered the 1005 SWA^» (Swansea - next trains)-PMD. I have a feeling it would be impractical for the Holyhead L/H set to cover a Rhymney diagram at weekends to free up a couple of 150s!

I'm wondering what operates the 'peak' Heart of Wales services. I've seen 2-car formations in past summers, but I don't remember noticing what was used last year - except for the 18.21 - I seem to remember passing a single 153 a few times on that one, and there was no sign of anything having been detached in Swansea.

I think ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) must have some sort of 153 cloning device - there seem to be as many diagrams as sets! Having said that, I used the 1514 CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains)-SWA several times during the winter timetable, and a 150 turned up on a good proportion of occasions.

[Jez]

Ive noticed on Saturdays at Cardiff Central the Ebbw Vale Service often starts from Platform 4 and goes back out to Ebbw Vale as soon as the previous service terminates. During the week the unit often terminates and then sits on Platform 0 for the best part of an hour until the next journey.

On Sundays they seem to have 153's turn up all over the place! And 158's too!

[anthony215]

 Ebbw Vale trains noirmally arrive into cardiff central at 31 minutes past the hour so i know on saturdays  they do tend to turn them around quickly and send them back to ebbw vale rather than shunt them out to the siding and have them wait in platform 0 for about 45 minutes or so. As for increasing capcity on saturdays i have seen that there is a rake of 4 mk2 coaches and  a virgin liveried class 57 at Canton , this could be used as it seems to be a spare set and isn't the loco hauled set that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) hire with the class 57's for the taunton diagram serviced at canton on weekends so surely 2 class 57's top and tailing  1 of the sets be used on a weekend rhymney diagram.

[Jez]

It makes sense to send the Ebbw Vale trains to go straight out rather than waste an hour standing in Cardiff Central. The only problem is if the train is late arriving it will obviously be late on the next service with only a 4 minute turn around time. As it goes along the main line until just before Newport this could result in the Nottingham train being late also.

I too have noticed a Virgin liveried 57 at Cardiff recently.

I noticed this week that there were 2 153's put together to form a 2 carriage train - think this was the 11.10 Swanline which would have come off from the Heart of Wales line. Also the 17.10 swanline today was 2 x 153's.

[Hafren]

The 17.10 is the one that interacts with the Heart of Wales. It looks like half ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)))'s 153 fleet was on Swanline today! That 153 tree must be in season. I've noticed that double 153s have been a fairly standard arrangement on one of the PemDock diagrams over the past year or so.

It seems that people running from Platform 0 to 4 at Cardiff is not entirely unusual on Saturdays! Possibly not planned, but useful stepping up when it's needed.

All this talk of Ebbw Vale and those 57s hanging around Canton has given rise to some thoughts. Probably of the "not going to happen" nature 

The Holyhead set is often visible at Canton during the day - if you see a LH set with a buffet car that'll be it. It strikes me that being a fairly unique train in the current setup, it is used rather inefficiently. Obviously it'll need some downtime for maintenance - I've no idea how many spare locos/coaches there are - but some obvious (and precedented in recent years) uses spring to mind!

- Fishguard: The Fishguard run would slot in nicely between the Holyhead turns. The evening run could go via Leckwith Loop like it used to so that it's at Cardiff at the right time for the Holyhead journey without hogging the platform. In the morning I think there's a bit of a gap between arrival and departure - a long time to block the platform. That would perhaps be useful for loco change, should it be needed, to allow the locos to be rotated/serviced as necessary (otherwise the same one would go back to Holyhead each day): photographers would like it, but not operationally wonderful. Slight drawback in that if it's delayed in the sticks, the flagship Holyhead service ends up being delayed as well. It's worth noting also that the Fishguard service runs between the peaks, so that unit probably isn't too valuable on weekdays.
- Rhymney: One LH diagram would free up a couple of Sprinters. However, a set with first class and buffet probably isn't the most suitable for the route, unless someone does a bit of shunting! There would be a set stuck at Holyhead - are there enough spares in Canton to do this on a Saturday?

I suspect that track access charges for haulage would be an issue, along with the need to retrain the relevant drivers who won't currently have traction knowledge.

Something "interesting" comes to mind re Ebbw Vale as well...Ebbw Vale services have hour-long turnarounds at Cardiff. I would guess that the arrival and departure times need to be around the same point in the hour (leading to hour-long turnarounds) in order to make things work on the single line. Swanline... also hour-long turnarounds, this time at both ends, in order to provide optimal pathing. Ebbw Vale takes 3 diagrams, Swanline 2. As both routes have hour-long turnarounds at Cardiff, if the Ebbw Vale timetable were shifted about 20 minutes earlier, it would more or less tie in with Swanline. Make a few minor adjustments, and we produce an hourly through service, still with hour-long turnarounds at Swansea for robustness, using the same total of 5 units!
There is, of course, a drawback: 153s are no good for Ebbw Vale, so we'd have to ensure no set swaps at Swansea (by timetable or last minute problem-solving), but we could always just re-swap at Cardiff when that happens. And if we retain the setup on Satudays we'd need 4 cars on all 5 diagrams (i.e. more total diagrams) - unless there's some dividing/splitting at Cardiff, along with some extra shunt moves.

Back to reality...

[Jez]

I like the idea of more services on the Heart of Wales and Swanline being a direct service rather than terminating at Swansea. I suppose it might be possible for the swanlines to depart Swansea around xx35 instead of xx14 but with a FGW^▸ (First Great Western) high speed service just behind it that could be a problem. I know the 1738 departure if its late often holds up the 1748 FGW service.

It makes sense for the Ebbw Vale Service to depart from Platform 4b on Saturdays rather than Platform 0.  Nottingham doesnt seem to go from Platform 0 at all now and goes from Platform 1/2 or occasionally platform 4b.

158's seem to be used a lot on the Manchester-Milford Haven services on weekends - I wonder where they come from at weekends?

[Hafren]

I travelled to Central Wales yesterday - 153 on the 9.16, and a 150 on the other diagram. There was a Pacer on the Swanline service (probably to maximise the use of 153s where they're needed), so the through services didn't happen, which caused a bit of confusion, and highlighted some of the shortcomings of passenger information. I had expected something to happenn because the 8.xx from Cardiff hadn't reported on LDB, and later noticed it was because a separate Cardiff-Swansea service had been entered, suggesting a swap was planned.

The 9.11 Cardiff service (arrival from Shrewsbury) was announced as appraoching platform 1, and then announced as an alteration when it was signalled into 3 ready to take over the 9.16 back to SHR^» (Shrewsbury - next trains). Then as it approached the signaller must have entered the new headcode for it to take over that service, and the auto-announcer forgot about the Cardiff service and announced the 9.16 as arriving at P3. So two sets of passengers were ready to board it. Cardiff-bound passengers ended up getting on (it still said Cardiff on the front), and HoW^‡(resolve) passengers crowded around the doors to ask the conductor. He didn't know about the swap, and could only assume it was going to Cardiff as normal, while everyone told him the CIS^▸ (Customer Information System) was showing it as a Shrewsbury service. Then someone (I think he turned out to be the trolley person) said a 143 was on the train coming from Cardiff, so a swap was needed; lo and behold a Pacer arrived at P1. So the conductor was a bit confused, and got on the phone to control,and then had to kick the Cardiff passengers off.

It would have been nice if someone had thought to intervene and make a manual announcement to explain what was going on, and give definite platform advice. At Cardiff they're quite good at making manual accouncements (or at least can be), but at Swansea don't really do it much, except to announce connections when London trains arrive late. If there's a swap, someone somewhere knows about it - it can't be too difficult to ensure it's announced by a human.

As the 9.16 left I think I saw a Pacer waiting to arrive on Swansea loop - that must have formed the 9.50 SWA^» (Swansea - next trains)-PMD. I hope that's not a sign of things to come this year! Coming back, I passed another Pacer on the 17.51 SWA-PMD, but that's consistent with last year. So looks like 2 Pacers to Tenby agan, along with one on Swanline.

There was a 158 on the 18.04 from Cardiff to Milford - that one seems to be a popular one (weekdays also) for 158s on occasions when they end up on the route.

I like the idea of more services on the Heart of Wales and Swanline being a direct service rather than terminating at Swansea. I suppose it might be possible for the swanlines to depart Swansea around xx35 instead of xx14 but with a FGW^▸ (First Great Western) high speed service just behind it that could be a problem. I know the 1738 departure if its late often holds up the 1748 FGW service.

That's why I suggest it's better to keep the Swanline paths and move the Ebbw Vales earlier to fit if they were to run through. The off-peak Swanline paths are about the right times to avoid problems, although on the up they can delay London trains. Not that there's likely to be a regular through service; the rolling stock needs/usage on the two routes are different, and it's sometimes suggested that Ebbw Vale is ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)))'s baby and thus they want to keep it as reliable as possible. The 1738 is really much too close to the FGW service - probably can't run earlier because it's providing a decent interval after the 1704, and going after the 1748 would just hold up the 1804. It would be nice if 4 cars were used on weekdays - the 1738 could do with a bit more capacity then.

[Jez]

Yes they seemed to use a lot of pacers yesterday on the West Wales/Swanline services.  I think the last 2 Swanline services to Cardiff at 21xx and 22xx were both pacers (I think the 21xx originates from Pembroke Dock).

Ive not seen a 158 on the Milford-Manchester route for ages apart from weekends.

Can a pacer not go along the Heart of Wales line then? That would explain the last minute swapping of units.