TV Licensing

[whole diary]

[moonrakerz]

I get these letters even though I have a TV Licence (all to do with my flat having both a name and a number).  You may find this website interesting where the owner has been sent threatening letters since 2006 and just ignored them.  He doesn't have a TV.  Apparently TVL haven't taken any action against them and never even visited their property.

I was aware of that site thanks.  I am completely au fait with TVL's tactics and I am 100% sure of who does and does not require a Licence.
TVL are not only a bunch of cowboys, they are incompetent. When they replied to my MP^▸ (Member of Parliament)'s letter they copied it to me as well - well, sort of !
It was addressed to a Mr Webster (NOT my name) who lived in a place called Arminster.



Edit Note:  This new topic has been split off from http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=6724.msg67066#msg67066 as that particular discussion was going significantly off-topic.  Chris.

[John R]

I'm confused, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Perhaps you can explain what the circumstances where that exempted you from having a licence when you have a TV connected to an aerial.

[moonrakerz]

I'm confused, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Perhaps you can explain what the circumstances where that exempted you from having a licence when you have a TV connected to an aerial.

I fear that you are one of the many that TVL have bamboozled by their less than honest advertising along with their co-conspirator, the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page).

I am NOT "exempt" anything - I am obeying the Law of the Land.
The Law says that you require a TV Licence to watch or record LIVE television (regardless of its origin) - full stop !

If I use my TV for watching videos from Blockbuster, or playing on my PS3 or even watching last night's Eastenders that my neighbour recorded for me (there may be copyright issues here - but that doesn't fall under TVL's remit) I DO NOT require a Licence.
You do not have to de-tune or disconnect the TV. You do not have to tell TVL that you do not require a licence (If you do tell them this, they say that they will send someone round to check - therefore they are accusing you of lying - nice people ! Apart from which, if they do visit and you are not watching LIVE TV you are not committing an offence).
You do not have to let them into your house, you do not have to speak to them - unless you wish to tell them to "go away" - in whatever terms you wish !
You can legally ban them from ever setting foot on your property (as I have) - they have issued a statement through Parliament saying that people who do this will not be targeted or harassed as a consequence of their doing this.

Don't get me wrong here, I do have a licence  (my "saga" concerned an empty house which I was refurbishing). However, I do think the licence has become outmoded and I think that people who do watch without a licence are stealing from us honest folks who do pay.
What I did object to, most strongly, were the tactics used by TVL, I am old enough and ugly enough to look after myself, but what effect their tactics might have on the elderly and the vulnerable I shudder to think. There are (apocryphal ?) stories of pensioners who do not require to buy a licence actually buying one just to get TVL "off their backs"

Rant over !!

[grahame]

I'm gonna be heading way off rail topics  ... but just to back up your rant.

I have had serious problems with TV licensing in the past ... we lived in a house with a front door onto one road and a back door onto another.  Two postcodes / addresses - some very nasty letters from them which assumed we were watching TV and assumed that we had no license.  And every time we sorted it out, the whole thing started up again three months later.  In the end, I threatened to have a go at them for harressment, but pity the less robust sort who got that pressure.

I had always understood that you're assumed innocent until proven guilty ... but that doesn't always seem to be the case in their case, or (regrettably) at times with train ticketing and reasons for going on to platforms at stations.

[John R]

I'm confused, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Perhaps you can explain what the circumstances where that exempted you from having a licence when you have a TV connected to an aerial.

I fear that you are one of the many that TVL have bamboozled by their less than honest advertising along with their co-conspirator, the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page).

I am NOT "exempt" anything - I am obeying the Law of the Land.
The Law says that you require a TV Licence to watch or record LIVE television (regardless of its origin) - full stop !

If I use my TV for watching videos from Blockbuster, or playing on my PS3 or even watching last night's Eastenders that my neighbour recorded for me (there may be copyright issues here - but that doesn't fall under TVL's remit) I DO NOT require a Licence.
You do not have to de-tune or disconnect the TV. You do not have to tell TVL that you do not require a licence (If you do tell them this, they say that they will send someone round to check - therefore they are accusing you of lying - nice people ! Apart from which, if they do visit and you are not watching LIVE TV you are not committing an offence).
You do not have to let them into your house, you do not have to speak to them - unless you wish to tell them to "go away" - in whatever terms you wish !
You can legally ban them from ever setting foot on your property (as I have) - they have issued a statement through Parliament saying that people who do this will not be targeted or harassed as a consequence of their doing this.

Don't get me wrong here, I do have a licence  (my "saga" concerned an empty house which I was refurbishing). However, I do think the licence has become outmoded and I think that people who do watch without a licence are stealing from us honest folks who do pay.
What I did object to, most strongly, were the tactics used by TVL, I am old enough and ugly enough to look after myself, but what effect their tactics might have on the elderly and the vulnerable I shudder to think. There are (apocryphal ?) stories of pensioners who do not require a licence actually buying one just to get TVL "off their backs"

Rant over !!

OK, so you had an unoccupied house where nobody was watching a TV. I hadn't thought of that possibility. I'm not sure it needed a rant about me being bamboozled.

I agree that TVL have a reputation for being aggressive, but then I suspect if they weren't, the number not buying one would be much higher. Just look at all the motorists who aren't insured (or indeed pay road tax), whose costs come back on the rest of us who do pay our insurance.     

[Tim]

TVL are awful.  I do not have a TV and yet they continue to threaten and hassle me.  I refuse to tell them that I don;t have a TV because: 1) it involves using a premium rate number, 2) I am not legally reguired to do so, and 3) experince tells me that they won;t belive me anyway.

[moonrakerz]

OK, so you had an unoccupied house where nobody was watching a TV. I hadn't thought of that possibility. I'm not sure it needed a rant about me being bamboozled.

I agree that TVL have a reputation for being aggressive, but then I suspect if they weren't, the number not buying one would be much higher. Just look at all the motorists who aren't insured (or indeed pay road tax), whose costs come back on the rest of us who do pay our insurance.     

The "rant" was certainly not aimed at you - if it came across that way, that was not how it was intended.    
Many people just do not understand the Law on this subject. For example the majority believe that you need a licence just to own a TV - not so...........................sorry, ranting again !
Don't get me started on "detector vans"  ......................................

TVL are awful.  I do not have a TV and yet they continue to threaten and hassle me.  I refuse to tell them that I don;t have a TV because: 1) it involves using a premium rate number, 2) I am not legally reguired to do so, and 3) experince tells me that they won;t belive me anyway.

100% spot on !

[JayMac]

I too have had my issues with TV Licensing. I have a license for my property, yet still get the threatening letters because of issues with my flat previously being split into two bedsits. I've gone so far as to invite the goon from Crapita into my flat to see that I'm the only occupant and it is no longer split into two bedsits. Over 3 years since moving in I still get letters addressed to "The Legal Occupier, Room 2......". I have managed to stop the calls at the door by withdrawing the implied right of access from TV Licensing and it's agents. The letters keep coming however and I am considering mounting a case for harassment with outside help. My letters to TV Licensing alledging harassment have so far been ignored.

[Phil]

Just out of interest (and way off topic I know, sorry!) but, if you only watch TVCatchup via your computer, and have no other equipment in the house or indeed an aerial of any kind, do you need a TV licence?

[Brucey]

Just out of interest (and way off topic I know, sorry!) but, if you only watch TVCatchup via your computer, and have no other equipment in the house or indeed an aerial of any kind, do you need a TV licence?

Yes.  If you watch TV as it is broadcast* then you require a TV licence (no matter what you use to watch it with).  You don't need a licence for BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) iplayer unless you watch live TV on there.

* = This also covers TV which is slightly delayed, e.g. watching online.

[JayMac]

Yep. Even a Sky Player subscription online or on an XBox 360 requires a TV license to watch the 'live' streaming channels. Even though Sky Player has no subscription packages that include 'live' streaming of BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) channels.

So if Sky Player was your only access to 'live' TV, you would legally be required to fund a BBC television service for which you had no access!! Madness.

[matt473]

To keep it simple, if you don't watch tv at the same time it's shown on tv but watch it on the likes of Iplayer etc. you do not need a licence fee. This of course is a life saver for many students 

(Check when those repeats are on though)

[devon_metro]

I'm intrigued as to how they can trace you using live streaming on the Internet!

[Chris from Nailsea]

Guilty conscience, devon_metro ?? 

[JayMac]

I'm intrigued as to how they can trace you using live streaming on the Internet!

The truth is they can't. The majority of prosecutions for TV License evasion come about because people have made statements to enforcement agents incriminating themselves, or have made the mistake of inviting them in, or have been observed through a window watching broadcast TV.

Even the use of Detector Vans (if they even exist/work) is not enough on its own to secure a prosecution.