Cable / copper / metal theft - ongoing problems on the railways and elsewhere

[whole diary]

[paul7575]

While acknowledging it's a serious issue is there really 50,000 volts running through railway cables?  I thought the overhead was 25,000v. I know it's the amps that kill (after all a taser gun delivers 50,000v) but seems an awful lot of electricity.

There's a certain element of the 'worst case scenario' here by BTP^▸ (British Transport Police). 

But yes, the modernised sections of the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) do use a 50 kV autotransformer system, as will the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) when it is done, but no individual cable is at higher than 25 kV to neutral.  As well as the catenary there is a second anti-phase 25 kV feeder, which can usually seen strung along the outside of the portals but stood on insulators.  So if someone is daft or skilled enough to touch both phases of the supply at once, yes they'll get a 50kV shock, but it would be pretty difficult to do so.

I'm unaware of any online detailed drawings of how it all works - but the key feature is these autotransformers at intervals along the line that have 50kV across them - it is an improvement on the old booster transformer system, that was an earlier solution to volt drop with distance.

Paul

[bobm]

BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) have an interview here with a self confessed cable thief. Admittedly not on the railway but should serve as a warning to anyone tempted to try it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-13678266
 

[broadgage]

Yes, the more modern schemes do use 50KV , but only half that to earth.
Anyone tampering with such equipment would be liable to receive a shock at 25 KV, probably fatal but not allways.

To receive a shock at 50 KV one would have to well insulated from earth, but then touch both of the live conductors at the same time, which is unlikely in practice.

[broadgage]

Most services cancelled or delayed, some by several hours.
Signalling failure in the Woking area, suspected to have been caused by cable thieves.

Some reports suggest that the first priority of the BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) and/or local police was to keep everyone on the full and standing trains, no matter what.
It is all very well saying that seats are very last century, and that new commuter trains should be primarily designed for standing, but who wants to stand for 4 hours when major breakdowns occur, as seems to be happening more often.

Allowing passengers of the train is not be considered lightly, but when movement is unlikely for some hours, should perhaps be considered.
After at least 2 recent evenings of very bad delays at waterloo, increasing numbers of regular victims are starting to look upon the BTP as the enenmy, who are there to obstruct, not to help.

I feel that more could have been done, in particular that trains held at red signals, should have been allowed to proceed very cautiously to the next station.

[grahame]

I don't know whether delays are becoming more commonplace (not sure if there were comparable stats that we could look at 20 or 40 years ago) but I can certainly remember being stuck for 4 hours at Shifnal on a special (BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) arranged) train;  it was comfortable, all seated, and they arranged taxis for us when we got back to St Pancras at 3 in the morning.

BUT ... had we been standing, then a regrettable but good humoured incident (we WERE kept informed) would have turned into an unacceptable one about which we would have been (rightfully IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion)) really upset.

The "people shouldn't be expected to stand for more than half an hour" guideline should include circumstances that are beyond the timetable ... such as where there's disruption.

[bobm]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page)

Delays chaos prompts train review

A rail company has said it will review the way it responds to service disruption after thousands of passengers were stranded for hours.

A heavily pregnant woman was among a group who got off one of the South West Trains (SWT^▸ (South West Trains)) services outside Woking, Surrey and walked along the tracks.

SWT said Thursday night's problems on trains in and out of London Waterloo were caused by vandalism to a cable.

"We are committed to learning any lessons," it said.

Network Rail said 60 trains out of London Waterloo were affected by the signalling fault.

Further delays were caused because power to the rails had to be turned off when the passengers went on to the track.

'Police angry'

Emma Firth, from Farnham, who is eight months pregnant, said: "Me and another man talked to each other and said: 'This is our only chance'.

"In my condition I wasn't going to sleep overnight on a train, I had no food or drink.

"So the man gave me a piggy back off the train and helped me walk down the track.


Emma Firth was given a piggy back by another passenger
"One guard, with a torch, helped us walk across the track safely and was very polite but the police at the gates were very angry, saying we had trespassed.

"I got home around 2300 BST."

Another passenger, who asked only to be named as Keith, said he took the 18.33 South West Trains service from Clapham, which ground to a halt near Woking.

He said the passengers, who also included a diabetic man who needed insulin, decided to get off the train after about two hours.

"There were constant announcements every five minutes from the train driver saying he did not know when we would be moving.

"When we got to the gates the police tried to get our names, saying we were trespassing and that South West Trains take this behaviour very seriously.

"They didn't manage to get any of our names in the end. I got home at around 23.30."

Passenger Tim Leunig was stuck at Waterloo.

"What was amazing was the lack of information at Waterloo and the lack of thinking through which trains to run and which to cancel," he said.


Passengers at Waterloo said they were frustrated by the lack of information (picture by Kylie Barton)
"They kept blaming different things."

'Tell the drivers'

MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) for Mole Valley, Sir Paul Beresford, said: "It seems to me as though there was a lack of communication between Network Rail and South West Trains, particularly as evacuation has to be done really carefully.

"Someone should have been telling the drivers and the drivers should have been telling people."

SWT trains said some services had to be cancelled on Friday morning and others were running with fewer carriages than normal.

It apologised for the latest in a series of disruptions to hit passengers this week.

"The signalling problems are now reported to have been caused by deliberate damage to signalling system cable," it said.

"We are extremely angry and frustrated that mindless and irresponsible vandalism meant that many of our passengers had a terrible journey last night.

"As a matter of course, we will work with Network Rail to review the response to last night's disruption.

"We are committed to learning any lessons and taking any steps required to improve the flow of information to passengers."


Network Rail said 60 trains, all from London Waterloo, were affected by the disruption
Transport Secretary Philip Hammond said the review would look at what happened and the communications issues.

"Whatever the original cause we need a proper robust and reliable system for communicating with passengers and getting them to stations as quickly as possible," he said.

"Anyone running a business, when something goes wrong, needs to talk to their customers."

British Transport Police said its officers spoke to the passengers at Woking about the dangers of going onto the line without being directed to do so by rail staff or a police officer.

"We understand the concerns of passengers, particularly the heavily pregnant woman, and we are sorry if anyone felt our officers were not sympathetic to their plight."

[Tim]

Passengers exiting onto the track on their own is simple not acceptable, although one wonders if the on-train staff did enough to keep people informed and reassured if they felt that they had to do that

[ChrisB]

Trouble is, this passenger action wil be catching.....it'll start happening more & more often until someone puts a foot wrong. Unfortunately. There's no way to stop it.

[bobm]

About 15 years ago there was a fire on board a rush hour HST^▸ (High Speed Train) and it came to a stand near Maidenhead. The only injury was a passenger who climbed out of the train and was killed by a train on the adjacent line.

The train is usually the safest place to be but people need constantly convincing of this. I'm not sure what the answer is - repeating that message over a 2 or 3 hour period is going to lose its impact.

[broadgage]

Passengers exiting onto the track on their own is simple not acceptable, although one wonders if the on-train staff did enough to keep people informed and reassured if they felt that they had to do that

I am afraid that I might be tempted to leave after the first 2 hours of standing.
How long should one wait ?
No matter how many informative or reassuring announcements are made, there has to be a limit as to for how long standing in cramped conditions is reasonable.

Whilst another review is promised, the response to disruption does seem very poorly organised.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

nothing will get done... if anything they are more likely to find a way to prevent the doors from being forced open.... welcome to the human robot society

[Brucey]

Another story that demonstrates a trained second person (a conductor/guard or otherwise) should be present on board trains, even if they only reassure passengers that remaining on the train is the best option.

Last time I was on the tube, I was looking at a door and noticed no emergency door release.  I assume there is one somewhere, but they've put it out of reach to prevent situations like this.

[Tim]

Another story that demonstrates a trained second person (a conductor/guard or otherwise) should be present on board trains, even if they only reassure passengers that remaining on the train is the best option.

absolutely agree.  I suspect that in these days of track-cicuits and very low risk from collisions that this is possiblty one of the most important reasons for a second staff member on the train (to protect passengers from their own frustration and stupidity).

In my experience, some staff are good at it, but some are not and it should really be given high priority as it is just as much a part of the driver's and guard's safety critical role as their ability to place detonators or call the signaller.

 

[Tim]

I am afraid that I might be tempted to leave after the first 2 hours of standing.
How long should one wait ?
No matter how many informative or reassuring announcements are made, there has to be a limit as to for how long standing in cramped conditions is reasonable.

I agree, but the point is that you shouldn't leave of your own volition.  There is a limit to how long you shoudl stand, butteh staff should know what this is and safely escort people off the train once it is reached.

An additional problem with what happened at Waterloo is that once a few selfish people where on the track, NR^» (Network Rail - home page) had to turn teh power off.  This delayed other people on their trains longer and meant that air-con failed.

[MrC]

There is a limit to how long you shoudl stand, butteh staff should know what this is and safely escort people off the train once it is reached.

Which is fine if you have 1 or 2 trains, but this was exceptional as at the peak of the problems there were 50-60 trains stuck for various amounts of time over a large area, many in places where access was poor or non-existent, and many with 100s of people on. Evacuations under those sorts of conditions need a significant amount of planning, staff and, just as importantly, time. Plus once you've got all these people off the trains you've then got to get them from wherever they are to their destinations. And meanwhile fix the original problem and get the service up again.

I'm not in the habit of making excuses for the railway but this was a major incident with knock-on effects well outside the area where the outage occurred and, as such, a single TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) plus local NR^» (Network Rail - home page) staff are simply going to be overwhelmed. The only real recovery option was to try and get the service back and trains moving - large scale evacuations would have just made the problems far far worse.