Whats the Point of Set Down only?

[whole diary]

[ReWind]

Was travelling on the 23.35 BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) - EXD^» (Exeter St Davids - next trains) yesterday, as far as Taunton, and apparently some stations ( I think Highbridge and Bridgwater ) were set down only meaning passengers could get off but not get on.

Whats the point of this?  If the train is stopping at the station and passengers can get off, then surely it makes no difference to the running of the train if passengers can get on too. 

Are the a lot of services like this?

[northwesterntrains]

The underlying reason will usually be to put local passengers on local trains rather than boarding an inter-city/express/longer distance train for a short journey.

The reasons for doing this include faster journey times for express trains and to prevent longer distance trains being overcrowded by local passengers.

It used to be the case that you couldn't do Stockport-Manchester on a London-Manchester train.  However, an increase in London trains and a decrease in local trains to accommodate this has seen this decision reversed.

However, I can think of a valid reason to do it on other services.  When Virgin increased the frequency of Chester-London and Manchester-London via Crewe services they removed calls at Crewe for Glasgow-London and Liverpool-London services.  However, this has been criticised as it reduces the frequency of trains between Crewe and Warrington/Wigan/Preston/Lancaster/Glasgow by 50% even though Crewe-London hasn't really been affected, so a set-down only call at Crewe on southbound trains and pick-up only on northbound could overcome the problem and still put Crewe-London passengers on the less crowded trains.

[John R]

Although northwesterntrains answer is correct in the majority of cases where set down only is used, for the service in question the reasons are more practical.

If the service is cancelled due to engineering work, taxis can be used to take pax from Bristol to their stations, but are not required to turn up speculatively at stations where there are highly unlikely to be any passengers.

Also, it can run early after Bristol to try and get ahead of engineering work further down the line - in some instances resulting in an arrival at Exeter 30 minutes ahead of time by not having to wait at single line working. 

[northwesterntrains]

Also in the case of engineering works a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) may need to call at a station that they usually don't call at, from there a bus may be arranged to a station that the operator usually calls at so the set-down or pick-up restriction could be to prevent one TOC from taking another TOCs passengers.

[paul7575]

Some other factors.

The famous (in enthusiast circles anyway) Virgin 'Pretendolino' loco hauled Friday relief set is set down only throughout. This means it can depart once everyone has got off at a particular station, as there shouldn't be anyone waiting.

Late night trains are often set down only for slightly similar reasons - experience will have shown no-one ever gets on. An example is SWT^▸ (South West Trains)'s late Eastleigh to Portsmouth service around 0030. It is all stations but no pick ups - and is also a regular bustitution for engineering works. So the set down only restriction means they only have to organise taxis from Eastleigh, and don't need to position them at every other station for pickups as well.

Of course there are also many examples of pick up only calls as well - normally to keep local pax off the faster long distance services outbound from main London stations. Watford Jn and Clapham Jn are good examples where this restriction is operated.

Paul

[vacman]

Most of the London to Cornwall services this summer ar pick up only at Reading again this year, this is to prevent overcrowding of the service between Pad and Reading so that people going long distance have more chance of getting a seat all the way from Pad rather than all the Reading Commuters getting all the seats between Rdg and Padd, one interesting thing, if a FGW^▸ (First Great Western) decided to run a relief train from Reading to Cornwall in front of a service that is pick up only then the pick up only service doesn't have to stop!

[Ollie]

if a FGW^▸ (First Great Western) decided to run a relief train from Reading to Cornwall in front of a service that is pick up only then the pick up only service doesn't have to stop!

I might be wrong, but I would think that it would still have to call at Reading otherwise it would count as a fail to call. If it's scheduled to call then it has to, otherwise it's a part cancellation.

[vacman]

if a FGW^▸ (First Great Western) decided to run a relief train from Reading to Cornwall in front of a service that is pick up only then the pick up only service doesn't have to stop!

I might be wrong, but I would think that it would still have to call at Reading otherwise it would count as a fail to call. If it's scheduled to call then it has to, otherwise it's a part cancellation.

there would have to be a not to call order issued but you wouldn't need to tell anyone on the train at Paddington, would catch out all the Reading lot who think they're clever getting on these services!

[Ollie]

if a FGW^▸ (First Great Western) decided to run a relief train from Reading to Cornwall in front of a service that is pick up only then the pick up only service doesn't have to stop!

I might be wrong, but I would think that it would still have to call at Reading otherwise it would count as a fail to call. If it's scheduled to call then it has to, otherwise it's a part cancellation.

there would have to be a not to call order issued but you wouldn't need to tell anyone on the train at Paddington, would catch out all the Reading lot who think they're clever getting on these services!

I'm more thinking how much Network Rail would fine for doing a not to call..

[brompton rail]

For a while XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) made their 17.10 Leeds to Plymouth service 'pick up' only at Wakefield Westgate, in order to reduce the number of passengers who crowded onto it. There is a 17.05 Leeds to Kings Cross and a 17.19 to Doncaster that also serve Wakefield. However it didn't work as passengers ignored the 'pick up' only and it would be quite impossible with a standing load to go along the train and excess all those Wakefield passengers upto the Sheffield fare (next stop) in the 10 minute journey. It also produced the ridiculous situation that passengers from north of Leeds (the train starts from Edinburgh) would have to get off at Leeds and change into the next southbound train - the 17.19 to Doncaster (itself wedged) in order top reach Wakefield.  After a while XC gave up and removed the 'set down only' restriction.

[Feckham]

if a FGW^▸ (First Great Western) decided to run a relief train from Reading to Cornwall in front of a service that is pick up only then the pick up only service doesn't have to stop!

I might be wrong, but I would think that it would still have to call at Reading otherwise it would count as a fail to call. If it's scheduled to call then it has to, otherwise it's a part cancellation.

there would have to be a not to call order issued but you wouldn't need to tell anyone on the train at Paddington, would catch out all the Reading lot who think they're clever getting on these services!

I'm more thinking how much Network Rail would fine for doing a not to call..

Quite often the busy services going west have Reading as pickup only.  Reading is simply not shown on the departure board at Paddington, although many regulars know that it will be an advertised pickup at Reading so still cram in

[John R]

If they were excessed to the next stop on a regular basis they would soon stop doing it.   

[qwerty]

If the service is cancelled due to engineering work, taxis can be used to take pax from Bristol to their stations, but are not required to speculatively turn up at stations where there are highly unlikely to be any passengers.

John has hit the nail on the head with this one.
Exeter depot has a booked job to pass home on this train after working the last up train from Exeter to Bristol. I have frequently found myself enjoying  a meander through the countryside seeing Westbury go past the window in the wee small hours.

[The SprinterMeister]

Was travelling on the 23.35 BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) - EXD^» (Exeter St Davids - next trains) yesterday, as far as Taunton, and apparently some stations ( I think Highbridge and Bridgwater ) were set down only meaning passengers could get off but not get on.

That train as well as the 22:00 Cardiff - Exeter unit (the departure time from Bristol varies) have normal station stops as far as Bridgwater. Taunton & Tiverton Parkway are set down only. This is in connection with the ongoing HOBC^▸ (High Output Ballast Cleaner) & TRT work going on between Bristol & Taunton. The trains became set down only while the TRT / HOBC was working Taunton to Exeter and seem to have remained so.

2S95 (22:00 Cardiff - Exeter) doesn't go beyond Weston Super Mare from the new timetable. Mainly because the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) was knocking on its back door by the time it got to Taunton.

[Tim]

If they were excessed to the next stop on a regular basis they would soon stop doing it.   

How would you enforce that.  If the train is busy, onboard checks are likely to be difficult.