Northern don't want 142s back

[whole diary]

[northwesterntrains]

At a stakeholder meeting Northern admitted that they weren't happy using 180s on services between Blackpool/Preston and Manchester/Hazel Grove.  However, they also stated that they will be unhappy at getting the 7 142s back from FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to fill the gap when the 180s are returned to East Coast.  They said that due to exponential increases in passenger numbers Pacers that were struggling a few years ago on the busier lines are totally unsuitable for them now.

They didn't say what they wanted instead but it sounds like it's a hint to the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) that they either want the 158s back from ScotRail or that they want more 150s or the 150s that they have been promised quicker.

[Super Guard]

Did I miss the press release announcing Northern in charge of rolling stock for the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)?

[northwesterntrains]

Did I miss the press release announcing Northern in charge of rolling stock for the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)?

You mean you didn't hear?  It's going to be one of the biggest changes to the rail industry ever.  Mainline London trains are going to be comprised of 6x142s and 4x143/4s (The 143/4s being First Class.)  Expect delays of up to 60 minutes for each service as the conductor struggles with the doors jamming at every station.

I'd love to see the faces of the London business people if that actually happened.

[brompton rail]

I believe the DafT are involved and this is part of larger plan to provide relief for those people unable to fly owing to Icelandic Ash. The 142s are to be retained by FGW^▸ (First Great Western) and operated on regular Penzance - Plymouth - Paddington services (where the top speed of 75 mph is less of a problem) on condition that FGW run their HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) as boat rains to Fishguard and Weymouth to assist stranded airline passengers. If it is found that heavily loaded 142s struggle on Devon banks the DafT have employed consultants to investigate and install a type of atmospheric railway propulsion system.

[devon_metro]

In reply to the original thread title: Shame!

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

good news... i found somewhere for them to go

http://drupal.thedonkeysanctuary.org.uk/

[The SprinterMeister]

At a stakeholder meeting Northern admitted that they weren't happy using 180s on services between Blackpool/Preston and Manchester/Hazel Grove.  However, they also stated that they will be unhappy at getting the 7 142s back from FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to fill the gap when the 180s are returned to East Coast.  They said that due to exponential increases in passenger numbers Pacers that were struggling a few years ago on the busier lines are totally unsuitable for them now.

They didn't say what they wanted instead but it sounds like it's a hint to the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) that they either want the 158s back from ScotRail or that they want more 150s or the 150s that they have been promised quicker.

Tough Titty

Unfortunately for Northern (and fortunately for us down here) it isn't a matter for Northern to decide who gets what units. FGW could have made use of the 14 x Angel Trains 158's that were sent away but they were not on the franchise plan so away they went as  DfT merely told FGW to follow the game plan. Arguably FGW could have made better use of the three car 158's that went to SWT^▸ (South West Trains) and sent 158863 - 872 there instead to give SWT a single engine type to deal with.

Northen can moan all they like, I still say their best option is to press for some rapid fire fill in electrification and some cascaded EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit)'s to release their DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s for other routes. We have capacity problems here too you know, you must have noticed all these loco hauled trains with hired in drivers (all paid for by DfT) rolling round the area to cover for a unit shortage. I seem to remember this forum got started as a general voice for aggieved commuters rammed into short formed DMU's round the Bristol area due to lousy decision making in the past.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

It's also worth noting that northen has a couple more units due to the oldham loop conversion to metrolink they probably get the most investment outside of London and Scotland

[caliwag]

Seems that Northern have no plans to sub the 180 loss with any loco hauled trains MCV to BPN...must be the obvious solution, and the passengers would love it.

[northwesterntrains]

Tough Titty

Unfortunately for Northern (and fortunately for us down here) it isn't a matter for Northern to decide who gets what units. FGW^▸ (First Great Western) could have made use of the 14 x Angel Trains 158's that were sent away but they were not on the franchise plan so away they went as  DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) merely told FGW to follow the game plan. Arguably FGW could have made better use of the three car 158's that went to SWT^▸ (South West Trains) and sent 158863 - 872 there instead to give SWT a single engine type to deal with.

One decision makes a lot of different things happens.

One key decision in rolling stock has been what's happened with TPE^▸ (Trans Pennine Express).  TPE were supposed to be getting new 3 car trains for all routes, with later on 4th cars to be added.

The first thing that happened was TPE told the order would be cut and they would be getting smaller cascaded Turbostars but should be getting enough to run the busier journeys in multiple.  As a result of this SWT forfeited their 170s and got first digs on cascaded 158s and overall got an increase in their capacity.

Following this doubt was cast over whether TPE would get the 4th carriages and apparently Siemens would now have difficulty in building 4th carriages due to new green legislation, not to mention hugely inflated costs over a few years ago.

The next thing that happened is TPE were told to run the Manchester-Scottish services without getting any extra stock.  Virgin and CrossCountry would benefit from this.  This resulted in less Turbostars operating in multiple and a cutback in capacity between Manchester and Preston, a gap which Northern have since had to fill.

Northen can moan all they like, I still say their best option is to press for some rapid fire fill in electrification and some cascaded EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit)'s to release their DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s for other routes.

Really?  We're being told that Manchester-Liverpool electrification could be completed in two years yet it could be 2015 before any cascaded EMUs are available.

[northwesterntrains]

It's also worth noting that northen has a couple more units due to the oldham loop conversion to metrolink they probably get the most investment outside of London and Scotland

The Oldham Loop is closed completly at present.  Most of the Oldham Loop passengers are travelling on Calder Vale services so the units released are used to strengthen services on that line.

The conversion consists of overhead DC^▸ (Direct Current) electrics (on the cheap), cheap replacement of track where it needs it i.e. not done to a high enough level for heavy rail to run on it (parts of the Altrincham and Bury lines are on old BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) wooden sleepers), new trams (much cheaper than new trains) and a repaint of stations in to Metrolink colours.  Trams will be built to run at rail platform heights.  Overall a lot cheaper than what happening in London Midland land.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

Exactly proving you don't have to spend big!

[northwesterntrains]

We have capacity problems here too you know

The ex-Wessex Pacers and 150s do have low capacity seating compared to Northern's and London Midland's units though.

[devon_metro]

We have capacity problems here too you know

The ex-Wessex Pacers and 150s do have low capacity seating compared to Northern's and London Midland's units though.

You seem to be under the illusion that the South West is making these capacity issues up. You try boarding any peak time service and expect a seat out of Bristol/Cardiff/Exeter/Southampton etc. Heaven forbid if you get a 2 car 142 bouncing into Exeter Central at half 5...

There is of course also the fact that the newest unit that First Great Western (west) operates is 1992 (ish), meanwhile in the North you have the 332 (?) EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) in Leeds, 185s, 170s. But alas, the South always gets the new stock!! 

[inspector_blakey]

I'm trying to think of a more scandalous waste of 125 mph intercity-standard rolling stock than having 5-car 180s pottering around between Manchester and Blackpool but having trouble.

Anyone think of any other contenders?