FGW proposes North Downs electrification

[whole diary]

[Jonathan H]

Also worth bearing in mind in relation to this that Network Rail is currently studying the idea of creating a Channel Tunnel freight route avoiding London by putting in a flyover at Redhill between the Tonbridge and Guildford lines. With Reading modified and GW^▸ (Great Western) electrification complete, there would presumably be a case for making such a route Class 92-operated throughout. The study was due to be wrapped up this month.

Main fly in the ointment is that a certain supermarket chain has an application in to build on part of the land at Redhill that a flyover would need.

At the AGM^▸ (Annual General Meeting) of the Reigate & Redhill Rail Users Association a few weeks ago, the local MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) suggested that a watch is kept on the idea for a flyover - I took this to suggest that he would argue against it on grounds of noise and sight.

Putting in extra trains would need some considerable work on the signals on the North Downs line given that there only appear to a few traffic regulating ones (as opposed to signals protecting level crossings).  However, if this improved the headways and allowed the return of longer distance trains, that wouldn't be a bad thing.

Isn't there a pretty long 35mph restriction for locomotive hauled trains up the hill from Chilworth?  I don't think there's anything over 70mph all the way.

[Electric train]

Further information from 'thisissurreytoday'.

Bloody Tesco at it again.

They can build it, don't take long to knock down

[paul7575]

The land required by Tesco isn't in railway ownership yet is it though? Although it is the obvious route for a bypass line, if NR^» (Network Rail - home page) think they need it, they should probably get their finger out and get the local authority to sort it. A new bit of railway won't just happen on its own...

Paul

[willc]

Doesn't need the local authority to do it. If the NR^» (Network Rail - home page) report says the flyover is a sensible thing to do, DafT can just say it's in the national interest and slap a development ban on the land required.

[onthecushions]

Well done FGW^▸ (First Great Western) for taking this up.

The problem seems to be that London must be a destination, if a service is to receive investment.

The Steer-Gleaves report on Crossrail rejected electrification past Maidenhead because Reading - Paddington passengers would use the 125's, ignoring the fact that Reading had more commuters in-bound than out-bound. Similarly, the Electrification RUS^▸ (Route Utilisation Strategy) graded the ND (or Trans-Siberian as it used to be called when it was all stations to Tonbridge!) as Tier 3, ignoring the fact that it is an International Gateway Service, i.e. of the first priority. I've argued for this service at numerous RDA^▸ (Regional Development Agency), CC, etc Enquiries but never had the civility of a rejection of the thesis.

No doubt the nettle of ac/dc change-over at Reading will need to be grasped one day but at present all that is needed is, I believe, 3 substations and 5 TPH^▸ (trains per hour)'s. Platforms 4a,b (and c one day) will do.

How is the Reading Spur - Reading New Jn line isolated at present?

OTC

[Electric train]

No doubt the nettle of ac/dc change-over at Reading will need to be grasped one day but at present all that is needed is, I believe, 3 substations and 5 TSC's. Platforms 4a,b (and c one day) will do.

The separation of ac / dc traction can be done in a number of ways the 2 used by NR^» (Network Rail - home page) are 25 kV isolation transformers typically 2 per track the isolation sections spread over about half a mile, track circuits are isolated by IBJs^▸ (Insulated Block Joint) in both rails at a number of points along with complex earthing and voltage limiting devices between the 2 earth systems (the dc earth and the ac earth)

How is the Reading Spur - Reading New Jn line isolated at present?

It isn't in the sense of ac dc electrification, usual practice in dc traction areas is to use ac track circuits and in ac areas to use dc track circuits as the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) is not electrified at Reading immunisation can be achieved by the use of ac track circuits.

The isolation between ac and dc traction is not only for track circuit immunisation there are other problems such as stray traction return current that can cause the other form of traction current switchgear, transformers etc problems

[eightf48544]

I don't think we should worry too much about the DC^▸ (Direct Current)/AC change over. Engineers like Electric train should have it well in hand by now.

Until recently the NL line 313s pans were up and down 3/4 times, depending if they put it up at Dalston going East, in one journey.

Also at Farringdon.

I wonder how many millions of times those changeovers occurred, without problems, over the course of the years.

[A V Lowe]

In 1980 I almost moved to work with BRB^‡(resolve) electrification design office - one of the big cash-saving benefits of this core team and coherent railway operation was that they were using idle time on the current work programme to nip over the the East Coast and acquaint themselves with the structures and track layouts.  It was thus that a lot of routine and planned ciivils work was done with added detail to remove the need to rip out or change things 'when' the wires came along.  Now if this was planned in to the routine work on the North Downs line, any major sleeper renewals would use units with '3rd rail' mounting holes, and LC^▸ (Level Crossing)'s would incorporate provision for rail side-guards.  Thus when the money to install the sub stations and 3rd rail itself comes available the time to deliver and disruption will be greatly reduced, as it may well be that most of the plain line (and possibly the switches), will already be fitted -out.  From the information already posted it does seem that this process is already rolling forward in the Crowthorne area

A further detail to consider for the EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit)'s ordered and the current uncertainties over new DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s - the Class 365 Royal Mail EMU's are equipped for operating as 2-wire controlled sets hauled by any 2-wire locomotive.  So why can't we order new EMU's with this feature - after all the 390's have it to work with Class 57's when required/dewired.  The Redhill-Reigate shuttle set, which would appear to be a diagram with poor utilisation might instead operate a Redhill-Guildford diagram with an electro-diesel power option - this would offer 4 (or 3) coach Electrostars for the route and when the resources or conditions permit, the line would retain the EMU's and dispense with the diesel or ED locos.  The technology would allow Southern to eliminate their small DMU fleet and operate combined E Grinstead+Uckfield trains to release train paths between Oxted and London, and couple extra coaches on to the Ashford-Brighton services.  This could also apply for Reading to Guildford, using SWT^▸ (South West Trains) EMU's (again 4 coaches replacing 2 or 3, and potentially running through to other destinations).

There is a strong precedent in this part of the world - Crompton (33) plus 4TC on Reading-Basingstoke and Bournemouth-Weymouth before the rails went that far West   

I propose that we get some preliminary checks on 2-wire - or are there some 365's mothballed which could be converted to passenger carrying vehicles - truly flexible with shoegear (currently u/s on many units) a 25KV pan and 2-wire with any suitable loco - ideally with a Deliner coupling conversion.

[willc]

I assume you actually mean Royal Mail Class 325s - the 365s are FCC^▸ (First Capital Connect)'s Networker Express fleet.

[A V Lowe]

Yep I knew it was wrong but had a mental block 3*5 on this.