Advanced Tickets - when is it OK (and when not) to travel on a receipt

[whole diary]

[grahame]

Feedback from Andy Mellors and Lesley Coleman at WWRUG^» (West Wiltshire Rail Users Group - about) meeting last night ...

"If you turn up to collect an advanced purchase ticket but you can't collect it because the machine at the station is broken / inaccessible, it's our policy that you can travel on the train as yor receipt / collection number will be sufficient proof of purchase, but you must collect your ticket as soon as you can".   When pressed further, that does NOT mean you have to get off the train at the next station with a machine and "drop back" a service - but rather at your next interchange point or even at final destination.

I note that the statement was because the machine at the station is broken / inaccessible and not because there is no available machine.  So that if you have an advanced ticket from a station where there isn't a machine at all, you WOULD be in hot water if you didn't get the ticket posted to you, or make a prior trip to collect it from elsewhere (do I read what was siad right?).  It's also interesting to note that - as the policy is stated - you cannot travel on just the receipt if you join at a station where there is usually a machine but it's away for repair!

[signalandtelegraph]

Surely a machine away for repair is, by default, inaccessible?

[grahame]

Surely a machine away for repair is, by default, inaccessible?

Indeed so ... but it's not at the station, is it?  And that was part of what was said.

I'm probably playing Devil's Advocate here a bit ... my real concern is at stations that have never had a ticket machine, or now have just a plinth where one used to be - the need to collect advanced tickets from another town seems peverse when FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are perfectly happy, it seems, to let your receipt act as proof of purchase in other circumstances

[Chris from Nailsea]

A possibly silly question from me, if I may?  From National Rail Enquiries, regarding Worle Station:

Ticket office opening
Monday-Friday Closed
Saturday Closed
Sunday Closed
Self-service machines
No
Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) PrePay
No
Penalty fares
Penalty Fares apply to journeys from Worle station when travelling with:
First Great Western

[JayMac]

Also interesting to note that according to NRE^‡(resolve) website that whilst penalty fares apply on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) services from Weston-super-Mare they do not apply if travelling with Arriva Trains Wales

[thetrout]

Indeed so ... but it's not at the station, is it?  And that was part of what was said.

But how as the passenger, are you ment to know if the ticket machine is away from repair until you get to the station...?

That's almost like saying, "Check the machine is there and working the night before travel" Which IMO^▸ (in my opinion) would be totally unreasonable!

[Tim]

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are perfectly happy, it seems, to let your receipt act as proof of purchase in other circumstances

I read the policy as FGW are reluctant to let you travel on a receipt but will let you do it in very limited and unexpected circumstances (ie when you expect a machine to be available and unexpected find that it is not).  Seems fare enough to me, At least until we move to smarter ticketing with barcodes or whatever, the receipts are not that secure, so only acepting them for travel when accompanied by a good excuse as to why the passenger hasn't got the tickets is sensible. 

When I order tickets to collect from a machine, I have to tell the website which station I am collecting them from.  I'd therefore be surprised if I was able to collect my tickets from a station machine further down the line if the machine at my starting station as broken.  Such ticket collection might be available from a booking office but not from a TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) surely?

[Brucey]

When I order tickets to collect from a machine, I have to tell the website which station I am collecting them from.  I'd therefore be surprised if I was able to collect my tickets from a station machine further down the line if the machine at my starting station as broken.  Such ticket collection might be available from a booking office but not from a TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) surely?

You can collect from any machine, even a different TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s machine.  I regularly collect my tickets from the machine at Cosham, even though it isn't on the list (I always select Bristol Temple Meads).  Apart from making you aware of which stations the tickets can be collected from, I honestly can't work out why you need to nominate a station?

[thetrout]

I don't know that either...

I booked a ticket for collection from a London Midland ticket machine in Birmingham New Street, yet collected the same ticket from a Virgin Trains TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) at Liverpool Lime Street... I've also done the same thing in collecting a South Eastern Ticket from a GNER^▸ (Great North Eastern Railways) ticket machine in Newcastle... So it does work

They are all connected to the same database servers, so really, you insert your card, the TVM searches the database for your details, asks you for the reference number of the ticket required and then spits out what you bought...

In some cases of older TVM's (Pre Greater Western Franchise types) if you only have one ticket purchased on your card, it won't even ask for the reference number...

[Tim]

Well, I have learnt something useful today.  Thanks

[Phil]

I have to say that whenever I've got on a train at Melksham (where there is no machine) and showed the train manager my ticket collection statement showing I've bought a return ticket from Melksham to Paddington, he or she has always been perfectly happy to let me travel on to either Swindon or Chippenham (where there is a machine, and where I would normally change) to collect my tickets.

[grahame]

That's almost like saying, "Check the machine is there and working the night before travel" Which IMO^▸ (in my opinion) would be totally unreasonable!

So is telling you to collect the ticket ahead of time from the nearest machine - which involves (in my own case) driving up to Chippenham some time before the journey to collect it.   Apart from not wanting to leave the car at Chippenham for a week, that almost negates the point of having advanced fares from Melksham.

I have to say that whenever I've got on a train at Melksham (where there is no machine) and showed the train manager my ticket collection statement showing I've bought a return ticket from Melksham to Paddington, he or she has always been perfectly happy to let me travel on to either Swindon or Chippenham (where there is a machine, and where I would normally change) to collect my tickets.

Now THAT is very sensible and how it should work.  I have always assumed (silly me) that I would have to pay an extra fare up to Chippenham, as that's what the rules / guidelines are as I have been told.

What would be real nice would be a sign at Melksham, Avoncliff, etc ...

"There are no facilities to buy tickets at this station.  If you have no ticket, please board the train and ask the conductor to sell you one at the earliest opportunity - (s)he can offer a full range of tickets to customers who board at stations without ticket sales facilities and approach him/her.    If you have prebooked an advanced ticket, please board the train and show he conductor your receipt and reference number, and you will be able to travel to your first changing point where you can then get your ticket"

[Brucey]

"There are no facilities to buy tickets at this station.  If you have no ticket, please board the train and ask the conductor to sell you one at the earliest opportunity - (s)he can offer a full range of tickets to customers who board at stations without ticket sales facilities and approach him/her.    If you have prebooked an advanced ticket, please board the train and show he conductor your receipt and reference number, and you will be able to travel to your first changing point where you can then get your ticket"

I believe the latest issue of Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains) Mobile is able to connect via Wifi and/or GSM networks to the central booking servers.  I've heard (only a rumour) that in future, it will be possible for the guard/conductor/TM^‡(resolve) to pull your reservation off the server and print it on the train.  Can't imagine FGW^▸ (First Great Western) will install this soon, as they don't yet have any internet connections on their trains