"More trains less strain" encouraging people to break the law?

[whole diary]

[vacman]

I see the group "more trains, less strain" are going to hold another fare strike soon, are they going to pay the legal bill's for anyone who is prosecuted for fare evasion after they have encouraged such action? After all, it carries a prison sentance or a fine of up to ^1000 and a criminal record for fraud. I'm sure FGW^▸ (First Great Western) will not hesitate to prosecute anyone who is caught with the dodgy tickets.
Think i've opened a can of worms here!

[Timmer]

You may well have done Vacman but I dont think everyone who posts on this site is a big fan of MTLS^▸ (More Train Less Strain) so you may be allright 

[devon_metro]

Wonder if there will be any strategically placed PF^▸ (Penalty Fare) inspectors.

[vacman]

Wonder if there will be any strategically placed PF^▸ (Penalty Fare) inspectors.

Anyone caught would be liable to prosecution not just a Penalty fare!

[grahame]

Think i've opened a can of worms here!

 

As a moderator of the forum, I encourage the full frank and open discussion of all the various issues including this one, and I welcome views whether or not they're the same views that I share.   At the same time, I must keep a watchful eye out for everything from copyright infringement to scams being sold though the site to posters who are encouraging others to break the law and pornographic images, and take appropriate steps should such postings come to my attention.  Regrettably, this list of "oopsies" is far from all-encompassing, and I have to hide behind the agreement you all signed up to when you joined, and a "my decision is final and doesn't even have to be explained" disclaimer.


Personally as well, I would not (never ?) encourage anyone to break the law, and if there is any doubt about the legallity of some planned action I would advise caution and checking as far as is practical first.   

Two other comments.

Firstly, I am not in the picture as much as the "MTLS^▸ (More Train Less Strain)" folks on the commuter run via Keynsham into Bristol, so I cannont comment specifically on their tactics.  Certainly a boycot in any form of the 06:19 off Swindon towards Westbury, or the 19:35 Westbury to Swindon, would have little effect - FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have elected to run these two trains at time to suit themselves and not when they're needed - a tragedy that half the SLC^▸ (Service Level Commitment) service is wasted - so they are pretty well empty.  FGW could take a lot more through the fare box, and get a lot of local thanks and support, if these trains left Westbury at 08:00 and Swindon at 17:40.  And they would not even get a whiff of any complaint if that service change were to be made

Secondly, I have to admire the publicity that MTLS have achieved.

[Timmer]

Whether MTLS^▸ (More Train Less Strain) need to take action again once December's new TT starts remains to be seen. Though I dont condone breaking the law, I can understand why they felt the need to take the action that they did earlier in the year because they felt that no one was listening and they got exactly what they were looking for and that was nationwide press coverage.

[CJ Harrison]

While I absolutely support MTLS^▸ (More Train Less Strain)^s right to protest, complain and lobby for a better service I have no hesitation in condemning, outright, either breaking the law or encouraging others to do so. People do not have a right to simply go around doing as they please. If we all did that the result would be total anarchy.

It is illegal, for good reason, to deliberately evade paying a fare for train travel. Refusing to pay, no matter how much you dislike the service, is a criminal act. And just because train travel is an intangible service, as opposed to a tangible product, does not mean such action is morally justified. It isn^t. It is exactly the same as having some grievance against Marks & Spencer and walking into their stores, taking good off the shelf and walking out without paying for them ^ something very few people would dream of doing.

My suggestion to people who want to protest is to buy a ticket as normal but show the protest ticket to gate staff and on train staff first. If you are then asked for a proper ticket, produce that. That way you are both making your point and remaining fully within the law.

[CJ Harrison]

...they got exactly what they were looking for and that was nationwide press coverage.

I agree, Timmer, they did get a lot of publicity which was a bonus for them.

However, I personally believe that their whole approach is unconstructive. It generates a lot of heat and light but it really doesn’t move things forward. MTLS^▸ (More Train Less Strain) is overtly political and their objective of having the railway renationalised is little more than a decisional fantasy which no one really takes seriously. Moreover, they are overly aggressive in their approach which wins them few friends in the industry. On the plus side, they do raise the profile of the issues which, undoubtedly, helps other groups.

In my view, a reasonable approach, like Graham Ellis’, where you have a clear objective, are firm about what you want but yet engage in constructive dialogue with various parties, wins far more respect.

Softly, softly catchy monkey!

[vacman]

...they got exactly what they were looking for and that was nationwide press coverage.

However, I personally believe that their whole approach is unconstructive. It generates a lot of heat and light but it really doesn^t move things forward. MTLS^▸ (More Train Less Strain) is overtly political and their objective of having the railway renationalised is little more than a decisional fantasy which no one really takes seriously. Moreover, they are overly aggressive in their approach which wins them few friends in the industry. On the plus side, they do raise the profile of the issues which, undoubtedly, helps other groups.

I agree, i've not had much experience with them because thay seem to be just in the Bristol area but first impressions count and my first impression is that
they are just looking to pick fights and preach about impossible "improvements" like re-nationalisation instead of concentrating on smaller prjects that might actually get done. If the railways were re-nationalised then it wouldn't be any different because the DaFT^» (Department for Transport - critical sounding abbreviation I discourage - about) would still be running it!

[Graz]

...It is exactly the same as having some grievance against Marks & Spencer and walking into their stores, taking good off the shelf and walking out without paying for them – something very few people would dream of doing. ...

That's taking it a bit too far out of context. While if you dislike Marks and Spencer for whatever reason, you can go somewhere else to buy food and clothes. There are no other options with FGW^▸ (First Great Western), save for South West Trains' few services and ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) from Cardiff to Swansea. Many people are stuck with this operator and they feel they have no other choice but to take direct action -  as they don't seem to listen any other way and it does generate further press coverage against FGW's favour.

However, I wouldn't do this and don't agree with it. It's not the run-down conductors who should be taking any more stick, but the management. If people got prosecuted for this, even more hate would be generated between FGW and the irate passengers. If I had a really bad journey (such as stuck at Yate for hours as I read recently here) I would demand a refund after buying a ticket and write to the management + papers.

[vacman]

...It is exactly the same as having some grievance against Marks & Spencer and walking into their stores, taking good off the shelf and walking out without paying for them ^ something very few people would dream of doing. ...

That's taking it a bit too far out of context. While if you dislike Marks and Spencer for whatever reason, you can go somewhere else to buy food and clothes. There are no other options with FGW^▸ (First Great Western), save for South West Trains' few services and ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) from Cardiff to Swansea. Many people are stuck with this operator and they feel they have no other choice but to take direct action -  as they don't seem to listen any other way and it does generate further press coverage against FGW's favour.

However, I wouldn't do this and don't agree with it. It's not the run-down conductors who should be taking any more stick, but the management. If people got prosecuted for this, even more hate would be generated between FGW and the irate passengers. If I had a really bad journey (such as stuck at Yate for hours as I read recently here) I would demand a refund after buying a ticket and write to the management + papers.

I couldn't agree more, we (on train staff) have enough scrotes who wont pay to deal with without protestors, we don't get paid enough for that!