GroupSave and CrossCountry - unclear restriction.

[whole diary]

[Ollie]

These restrictions are set out in the notices and other publications of the Train Companies whose trains you are entitled to use."

No mention of "the notices and other publications of Train Companies you cannot use"

What a mess!

Well surely if CrossCountry doesn't do publications on GroupSave that shows it's because it is not valid on a CrossCountry service.

[smokey]

What a mess!

Ah yes 3 little words that sum up today's Railway. (what used to be British Rail)

[Phil]

What a mess!

Ah yes 3 little words that sum up today's Railway. (what used to be British Rail)

Interestingly, I use the same phrase quite frequently and yet the word count is usually 4.... heh

[inspector_blakey]

Bignosemac, it occurs to me that if you want to get a reasonably definitive answer on this issue you could do a lot worse than drop a line to Barry Doe, Rail magazine's fares and service correspondent*.

There's almost nothing about the system he doesn't know (or can't find out) and he also has lots of very senior contacts, so he will probably be able either to explain why XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) can bar GroupSave or take it up with the appropriate authorities if he can't explain it. I suspect though, as with so many things, it's the "publications and notices" of the train company that determine validity in this case.

*_{PM me if you don't have his email and I'll forward it to you - it's published in every issue of the magazine so not private, but I'm not going to post it on the web for the spambots to find!}

[Brucey]

Perhaps Groupsave tickets should be endorsed "Not CrossCountry or Arriva Trains Wales".  Or that could be re-worded to "Don't bother trying to use this ticket on any train operated by Arriva".

[readytostart]

Perhaps Groupsave tickets should be endorsed "Not CrossCountry or Arriva Trains Wales".  Or that could be re-worded to "Don't bother trying to use this ticket on any train operated by Arriva".

That's not particularly fair, there are plenty of companies that don't offer the group save discount, Northern, Virgin, TransPennine, ScotRail on anything other than the E+G route, whatever their reasons may be.

[smokey]

So a Question,

Due to a problem, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have to cancel a train, passengers are advised to travel on the next train that just happens to be a XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) service, and all tickets will be valid on the XC service.

EVEN the Group Save ones?

[Brucey]

So a Question,

Due to a problem, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have to cancel a train, passengers are advised to travel on the next train that just happens to be a XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) service, and all tickets will be valid on the XC service.

EVEN the Group Save ones?

Could ask the same question with TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) specific tickets - e.g. a Great Western Only ticket.  Would that be valid on XC in the circumstance you describe?

[chrisoates]

So a Question,

Due to a problem, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have to cancel a train, passengers are advised to travel on the next train that just happens to be a XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) service, and all tickets will be valid on the XC service.

EVEN the Group Save ones?

I saw this happen at Plymouth once - the XC TM^‡(resolve)'s first words were "anyone who has boarded with a ticket marked GS3 or GS4 will have to leave the train".

 

[paul7575]

Seems to me this is why at one time most TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) would only sell Groupsave at a ticket office, where the clerk could remind the pax of the limitations. IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) SWT^▸ (South West Trains) have never enabled it on TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) - don't know about web sales though.

What does the Groupsave leaflet actually say, if you get one at astation?

Paul

[chrisoates]

Seems to me this is why at one time most TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) would only sell Groupsave at a ticket office, where the clerk could remind the pax of the limitations. IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) SWT^▸ (South West Trains) have never enabled it on TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) - don't know about web sales though.

What does the Groupsave leaflet actually say, if you get one at astation?

Paul

Online I found time & date restrictions http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Documents/Custom/GroupSave/group%20save%20barred%20dates%202010%2003%2008.pdf

and this...
Please note: GroupSave tickets are not valid on the 1406, 1506, 1606, 1703, 1803 and 1903 London Paddington to Penzance services from 28 May to 3 September 2010 inclusive. GroupSave tickets are barred from all possible journeys on these service.

Not a hint that connecting services/ other TOCs may refuse them.

[Chris from Nailsea]

I saw this happen at Plymouth once - the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) TM^‡(resolve)'s first words were "anyone who has boarded with a ticket marked GS3 or GS4 will have to leave the train".

That does seem rather harsh.  As has been pointed out above, it's not the ticket for the journey that's invalid: it's the discount that was applied, when buying that ticket, that is no longer applicable.

Surely the option of paying the difference ought to be offered?

[Brucey]

I'm assuming that as XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) don't accept GroupSave tickets, they don't receive any cut of tickets sold where a GS discount is applied, meaning that other operators receive a larger share?  Is this correct?

[STATION MASTER]

you will find that groupsave from pad to penzance barred on friday only services in the summer.