Penalty fares

[whole diary]

[Phil]

Sorry if this is a bit radical for some on here, but I have long believed that TMs^▸ (Train Manager, or Ticket Machine, or Temple Meads (Bristol), depending on context) and guards should be stripped of all responsibility for selling tickets.

The railways of Britain have long appeared to be reinventing themselves as airlines. Whether this has been a conscious movement or an accidental drift, it's obvious to even the most casual of observer. FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are in the forefront of this: you board an HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) with your hand luggage, sit in a cramped, high backed seat (some with a television screen at eye level in front of you), and listen to the safety announcements.

The message seems to be, trains aren't like buses - they are more like aeroplanes. That being (or possibly that boeing...) the case, tickets should and MUST be checked both before boarding and on arrival.

All stations should and must have ticket selling and checking facilities. Barriers should prevent access to train doors - if you haven't got a valid ticket, you don't get on - pure and simple. At locations where there are no permanent staff, stops should be longer so the arriving train's guard can make sure people get in and out of the barriers ok (again, just like happens on aeroplanes).

Journeys will take longer, of course. Tough. If given the choice between a slightly longer journey or being assumed by default to be a faredodging criminal lowlife, as ALL train passengers seem to be these days, I'm sure most reasonable people would vote for tighter controls and longer journey times.

On-board ticket sales belong to buses and coaches (though I think I'm right in saying even National Express coaches require tickets to be bought in advance?). In this day and age, NO tickets should be sold on board a train, and the train managers and guards should be primarily in charge of health, safety and security on board.

End of rant... sorry....

[Tim]

, I'm sure most reasonable people would vote for tighter controls and longer journey times.

Not me.  The journey time is more important for me.   If 5% of people getting away without paying is the price I have to pay for being able to buy my ticket on the train (and consequently get out of bed 10 minutes later)then it is a price I would be willing to pay. 

Once upon a time the railway was always cheaper than flying.  This is not aways the case now but you seem to be arguing for the rail industry to give up the last remaining advantage it has over planes. 

[Tim]

Have a look at page 29 of http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1975/1975%20-%201283.html for details of British Airways 1970s London to Glasgow shuttle.  A ^19 ticket is was available to buy on the plane!  (even Scottish notes were accepted!!) BA^» (British Airways - about) obviously thought that offering such a facility was neccessary to compete with the convience of BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)).

[paul7575]

In this day and age, NO tickets should be sold on board a train, and the train managers and guards should be primarily in charge of health, safety and security on board.

You still need to deal with a loophole.  Even if tickets were always available before boarding, the nature of stopping trains is such that onboard ticket checks would still be required to protect against pax^▸ (passengers) buying two 'short tickets' for either end of their through journey.

Paul

[Super Guard]

More staff have been trained to do PFs^▸ (Penalty Fare) recently and barriers should be in Truro by the end of the year

XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) and before them Virgin are far more efficient at revenue protection than FGW^▸ (First Great Western) - I've often seen people asked to leave trains/pay up for rail card misuse, reservation infringements, throwing away the wrong half of a return and plain not having a ticket.
If I catch the 8:35 XC from St Erth I can be pretty sure I'll get gripped by Hayle or at worst Camborne.

I've just been from St Ives to Exeter Central no checks on the HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) but was asked to produce exiting EXC. Returning the only check was on the St Ives branch.

Checks on DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) in Cornwall seem pretty good but HSTs are a joke - there are a few TMs^▸ (Train Manager, or Ticket Machine, or Temple Meads (Bristol), depending on context) that do an excellent job but a lot seem to forget why they are employed.
Would you open a petrol station with an option of not paying - fitting HSTs with an 'honesty' box might generate some revenue.

Regarding training - that's obviously working on the DMUs - not a word on the HSTs where the potential for evasion is much greater.

I wonder if it has anyhing to do with the fact that XC and ex Wessex guards are on personal commission for ticket sales but TM's are not 

Probably not for much longer... 

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

Sorry if this is a bit radical for some on here, but I have long believed that TMs^▸ (Train Manager, or Ticket Machine, or Temple Meads (Bristol), depending on context) and guards should be stripped of all responsibility for selling tickets.

The railways of Britain have long appeared to be reinventing themselves as airlines. Whether this has been a conscious movement or an accidental drift, it's obvious to even the most casual of observer. FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are in the forefront of this: you board an HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) with your hand luggage, sit in a cramped, high backed seat (some with a television screen at eye level in front of you), and listen to the safety announcements.

The message seems to be, trains aren't like buses - they are more like aeroplanes. That being (or possibly that boeing...) the case, tickets should and MUST be checked both before boarding and on arrival.

All stations should and must have ticket selling and checking facilities. Barriers should prevent access to train doors - if you haven't got a valid ticket, you don't get on - pure and simple. At locations where there are no permanent staff, stops should be longer so the arriving train's guard can make sure people get in and out of the barriers ok (again, just like happens on aeroplanes).

Journeys will take longer, of course. Tough. If given the choice between a slightly longer journey or being assumed by default to be a faredodging criminal lowlife, as ALL train passengers seem to be these days, I'm sure most reasonable people would vote for tighter controls and longer journey times.

On-board ticket sales belong to buses and coaches (though I think I'm right in saying even National Express coaches require tickets to be bought in advance?). In this day and age, NO tickets should be sold on board a train, and the train managers and guards should be primarily in charge of health, safety and security on board.

End of rant... sorry....

phil i am 100% behind you on this... how many times have you seen the guard make the effort to check tickets on a busy train only to get to the first group of people (normally late teens pretending to be 15 to get child fair so id's need checking then an argument insues) and by the time they have done that group were at the next station and half the train has got off ticket free greeted by no barriers, its not the guards fault im not even blaming fgw the fact that so many people do it eather by ignorence or cant be bothered to get a ticket,or know that there is a chance of a free ride and no punishment is worrying however penalty fair will solve it if enforced.. all guard should be doing is checking tickets issuing p'fs and the normal duties