Reading Station improvements

[whole diary]

[eightf48544]

Don't let the Maidonians hear there might be shoe gear on the trains, they'll be demanding third rail on the river bridge to avoid despoiling Brunel's structure!

Recent units such a 377 and 378 seem to have been churned out in both third rail and dual versions (and presumably if required a pure AC version) but not sure of the cost differential.

[XPT]

Booking is now available up untill 30th December.   Though dissapointingly it seems only a limited number of services offer the ^10 single fares.    For instance in the morning of the 27th Dec, only the 1130 service from Bristol Temple Meads has a ^10 single fare available.  The rest are all ^24, ^28, and ^31 single.   Similarly coming back from London Waterloo-Westbury, the fares are all ^28 single! Except for a ^10 single with South West Trains on the 1920 service!

Do you think all the cheap advance singles have not yet been loaded onto the database?   Or is it likely that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are only offering the cheap advance tickets on a limited number of services only?

I suppose given the novelty value of these services, ^38 return isn't too bad.

[inspector_blakey]

Just a guess, but if service levels are somewhat reduced compared to normal the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) may be a little cautious about flooding the trains with cheap advance fares, to avoid potentially overcrowding them more than necessary.

As far as I'm aware, the advance fares for trains are made available all at once in a block, so I don't think there's much chance that only some of the advance tickets have been released.

[paul7575]

Recent units such a 377 and 378 seem to have been churned out in both third rail and dual versions (and presumably if required a pure AC version) but not sure of the cost differential.

All 'post privatisation' EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) are dual voltage capable, by the very nature of the traction equipment. They all have a pantograph well, even SWT^▸ (South West Trains)'s Desiros, although numbered in the 400 series (DC^▸ (Direct Current) units) are convertible.  If you look at the rear panel on the SWT Desiro secondmans side you can see the pantograph up/down controls.  The as new costs vary depending on whether the AC 'front end' gear (the pantograph, breaker and combined transformer/rectifier/inverter) is fitted or not, but there is always space for it, and the internal wiring is fitted.  On the opposite side of the equation, LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) 350/2s are capable of having shoe gear fitted.  Apparently it was a 'future proofing' requirement initiated by DfT^» (Department for Transport - about).

AIUI^▸ (as I understand it) the cost of the AC or DC specific extras, or both, is relatively insignificant in terms of the overall cost of a unit, as (ignoring shoe gear for a moment) it is only one carriage that is different, so 75% of the typical four car train costs the same, and the majority of the fourth car is the same no matter which power supply is used.

Paul

[paul7575]

On the fares front, SWT^▸ (South West Trains) have announced on their Christmas alterations pages that they are reducing their Bristol service for the week, so that they can strengthen the Exeter trains.

A reduced South West Trains service will run between London Waterloo and Bristol during the closure of Reading station. This is so we can provide more carriages for the expected extra passengers on our main London Waterloo to Exeter route.  Bristol passengers should use the altered First Great Western service.

I was wondering if 'route Salisbury' fares are therefore usable on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) services even though trains aren't stopping there. Does that open a can of worms?

Paul

[Surrey 455]

From the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) website www.southwesttrains.co.uk/Xmas2010.aspx

A limited First Great Western service will run to and from London Waterloo via Westbury and Salisbury during the closure of Reading station. Please see special publicity for details.

SWT seem to think trains are stopping there.

[inspector_blakey]

I was wondering if 'route Salisbury' fares are therefore usable on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) services even though trains aren't stopping there. Does that open a can of worms?

Interesting question, that. As a general rule under normal circumstances your train doesn't need to stop at any routeing point printed on the ticket, just needs to pass through it (e.g. Bristol to London advance tickets may be routed "AP Slough" to force the GW^▸ (Great Western) route rather than the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) route, but you certainly don't have to catch a train that calls Slough. Likewise some Reading to Gatwick fares are route "Gomshall" to preclude travelling via London, but the train doesn't actually have to call there - you get the picture).

BUT there are certain get-out clauses when trains are diverted due to engineering work. However, in this case given that the timetable is so comprehensively altered and squashed around, with SWT not running their normal service on the route, it would seem reasonable for FGW to accept tickets routed "Salisbury". Whether they will or not however I don't know - presumably the FGW ORCATS^▸ (Operational Research Computerised Allocation of Tickets to Services) share of a Bristol - London, route Salisbury ticket is fairly small under normal circumstances. I don't know if that means (a) FGW therefore won't accept the tickets, (b) FGW just sucks up the loss of revenue and does accept the ticket, possibly with some sort of Network Rail compensation? or (c) someone does a bit of fiddling with ORCATS to re-allocate revenues for the blockade period.

[paul7575]

From the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) website www.southwesttrains.co.uk/Xmas2010.aspx

A limited First Great Western service will run to and from London Waterloo via Westbury and Salisbury during the closure of Reading station. Please see special publicity for details.

SWT seem to think trains are stopping there.

Not necessarily, they may just be describing the route. We know from the journey planners they aren't calling at Salisbury, and the Basingstoke call is set down only towards London and pick up only on return.

Paul

[XPT]

I was wondering if 'route Salisbury' fares are therefore usable on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) services even though trains aren't stopping there. Does that open a can of worms?

Well I tried putting in a Westbury-London Waterloo return journey, and it lets you get a ^29.90 Super Off Peak Day Return. Which lets you travel on any of the FGW services on that route.

Obviously though us rail buffs will want to get a journey on both of the diverted routes on the same day.  

There seems to be a good amount of ^10 single fares from Paddington, but hardly any less than ^28 from Waterloo.

^47.90(incl a ^8.90 single from Westbury-Bristol) for a day return to London is somewhat more than I would usually be willing to pay.   But as this is a special and possibly once in life time return journey, then it's not too bad a price I suppose.

[JayMac]

I've tried the Shirehampton - Waterloo (Route: Salisbury) Off Peak Day Return for 27th Dec on the East Coast JP which offers up the option of a change at Westbury onto a Waterloo bound HST^▸ (High Speed Train). So the Route: Salisbury fares appear to be valid on the diverted HSTs.

The JP did suggest, however, changing again at Basingstoke as that will get you to Waterloo sooner. Think I'll stay on board the HST, thanks. ^17.90 (with my railcard) for some rare HST mileage is not to be missed!

[ChrisB]

I'll be bashing the route out from Padd via Banbury and return to Waterloo....just got to choose my preferred date.

On the fares front, SWT^▸ (South West Trains) have announced on their Christmas alterations pages that they are reducing their Bristol service for the week, so that they can strengthen the Exeter trains.

A reduced South West Trains service will run between London Waterloo and Bristol during the closure of Reading station. This is so we can provide more carriages for the expected extra passengers on our main London Waterloo to Exeter route.  Bristol passengers should use the altered First Great Western service.

I was wondering if 'route Salisbury' fares are therefore usable on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) services even though trains aren't stopping there. Does that open a can of worms?

I';ve asked the question of FGWs Fares department.....I'll post up the response when I get it.

[ChrisB]

On the fares front, SWT^▸ (South West Trains) have announced on their Christmas alterations pages that they are reducing their Bristol service for the week, so that they can strengthen the Exeter trains.

A reduced South West Trains service will run between London Waterloo and Bristol during the closure of Reading station. This is so we can provide more carriages for the expected extra passengers on our main London Waterloo to Exeter route.  Bristol passengers should use the altered First Great Western service.

I was wondering if 'route Salisbury' fares are therefore usable on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) services even though trains aren't stopping there. Does that open a can of worms?

Here's your definitive answer, from FGW Fares Management....

thank you for your e-mail.  To confirm FGW Bristol to London services will operate via Swindon, Oxford, Banbury/Aynho and High Wycombe and thus route 'Salisbury' tickets will not be valid on these trains.  Customers wishing to use route 'Salisbury' tickets may continue to do so by travelling from Bristol to Salisbury and changing trains for London Waterloo services, as per the majority of journey opportunities on a normal weekday.

[rogerw]

It doesn't answer the question in terms of fares from Westbury although journey planners show it as valid.

[JayMac]

As I said up thread JP's do allow one to use the Waterloo bound HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) from Westbury on a journey from Bristol and its environs.

I've also checked using National Rail Enquiries online and I can also summon up Route: Salisbury fares including HSTs from WSB^» (Westbury - next trains) - WAT. Takes a bit of jiggery-pokery though. I had to put in via Trowbridge & Salisbury and avoid Taunton. Then also select First Great Western services only!

After all that it offers up the ^27.10 Off Peak Day Return (valid anytime between Xmas and New Year) for Shirehampton to Waterloo.

This is the fare I'd suggest any cash concious Bristol based bashers buy (try saying that quickly after a couple glasses of wine!) - it's cheaper than the BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains)-WAT Super Off Peak Day Return.

Here's your definitive answer, from FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Fares Management....

thank you for your e-mail.  To confirm FGW Bristol to London services will operate via Swindon, Oxford, Banbury/Aynho and High Wycombe and thus route 'Salisbury' tickets will not be valid on these trains.  Customers wishing to use route 'Salisbury' tickets may continue to do so by travelling from Bristol to Salisbury and changing trains for London Waterloo services, as per the majority of journey opportunities on a normal weekday.

Hardly definitive, when it misses paul7755's initial point regarding fares via Salisbury. Someone should tell FGW Fares Management that there is an alternative route and fares from Bristol to London. Paddington is not the centre of the universe!!

[willc]

But Paul raised the point in the context of SWT^▸ (South West Trains)'s clear advice to Bristol passengers, which was to use FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s services from Bristol during the period affected, ie, don't bother trying to travel route Salisbury from the Bristol area at this time.

I shouldn't think the ticketing needs of those wanting to clock up some rare track/rolling stock miles was top of the list of priorities at the planning meetings.