What's the latest regarding diesel cascades?

[whole diary]

[northwesterntrains]

In the north we're hearing stories that the replacements for the 180s that Northern have sub-leased from East Coast will be the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) 142s as the 8 Northern 158s sub-leased to Scotrail are staying there under DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) orders.

However, apparently East Coast want the 180s by June to start work on maintainence and refurbishment, but the FGW 142s won't be released by then as that is dependant on 172s replacing the London Overground 150s.

Has anyone in the South West heard anything that conflicts with that?

[caliwag]

The Blackpool line will see at least one loco hauled set

[eightf48544]

There was a report on you and Yours that Bombadier are late with teh 172s.

So don't hold your breath.

[grahame]

Has anyone in the South West heard anything that conflicts with that?

Comment has been very cagey ... merely that "contingency plans are in place" if the 150s are late. I got a distinct feeling of "we're not going to tell the customers what we'll be doing" though it looks rather likely that there will be a void somewhere that should have been filled directly or indirectly by 172s. 

That could be in East Coast's workshops with the 180s not going in, on the lines that the new trains were due to serve, or anywhere in between along the lines of "any units that can be uncoupled to make extra but shorter trains will be".  But this final paragraph is purely a statement of some of the logical options.

[super tm]

In the north we're hearing stories that the replacements for the 180s that Northern have sub-leased from East Coast will be the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) 142s as the 8 Northern 158s sub-leased to Scotrail are staying there under DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) orders.

However, apparently East Coast want the 180s by June to start work on maintainence and refurbishment, but the FGW 142s won't be released by then as that is dependant on 172s replacing the London Overground 150s.

Has anyone in the South West heard anything that conflicts with that?

That is what I heard as well 142 back to nothern depending on the cascade from LO

[matt473]

The rolling stock deal has been signed but can't remember the details of it. Needless to say the 142s are going from FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to Northern enabling the 180s to leave, some 156s are going to EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) with the 150/1s being refurbed to 150/2 standards apparently that are meant for FGW.No doubt someone will be able to post the full list soon

[paul7575]

I think it is fair to say that the 142s are only the initial replacement for the Northern 180s. FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are down to get 6 x 150s from LO, and 9 x 150s from LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) (as far as various reliable sources have explained it). Nearly all the rest of LM's 150s will be going to Northern eventually, I think it is a lot more than FGW get.

Paul

[northwesterntrains]

The rolling stock deal has been signed but can't remember the details of it. Needless to say the 142s are going from FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to Northern enabling the 180s to leave, some 156s are going to EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) with the 150/1s being refurbed to 150/2 standards apparently that are meant for FGW.No doubt someone will be able to post the full list soon

I think the 6 156s to EMT is following the delivery of 172s to London Midland, as this will mean 150s are available to fill the gap left by 6 156s leaving at Northern.  The 6 156s are supposed to mean EMT will be able to use their entire set of 158s exclusively on Liverpool-Norwich services meaning that they're aren't supposed to be any unstrengthened services west of Nottingham.

Relating to 150/1 interiors there are two types.  All the Northern 150/1s have the North Western Trains refurbished interior 3+2 high back seats with a disabled toilet but no tables.  The London Midland 150/1s have the original interior, as do the Northern 150/2s that came from Arriva Trains Northern.

The thing of interest with the London Midland 150s are the 3 car sets.  There are two 150/0s that were built as 3 car and others that have been made up by adding a third car from a 150/2 to the middle of a 150/1.  Apparently some of the driving cars of the middle units of the latter are in a very bad condition, so it would make sense to keep them as 3 car.  However, it sounds like DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) have other ideas.

[northwesterntrains]

Nearly all the rest of LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise)'s 150s will be going to Northern eventually, I think it is a lot more than FGW^▸ (First Great Western) get.

London Midland have 26 150s, so that would leave 15 for Northern, but as I pointed out in my previous post some of these include made up 3 car sets that could be returned to 2 car.  But obviously a 3 car 150 would be a straight swap for a 156 casacded to EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) in capacity terms, a 2 car 150 would be short of capacity.

[IndustryInsider]

It says a lot for the current state of rolling stock availability that there's such a scrap between TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s for DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s built 25 years ago!

[northwesterntrains]

It says a lot for the current state of rolling stock availability that there's such a scrap between TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s for DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s built 25 years ago!

If DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) hadn't cancelled the proposed 200 new diesel vehicles order for Northern, TPE^▸ (Trans Pennine Express) and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) because of new electrification plans then it wouldn't have been as bad, but I suppose DfT had to find places for the Thameslink outcasts (319s) to go.

[Henry]

 I just hope we don't have a hot summer.

[Timmer]

It says a lot for the current state of rolling stock availability that there's such a scrap between TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s for DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s built 25 years ago!

Pathetic isn't it! To think that it has come to this, fighting over old BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) rolling stock. Not what those who thought up rail privatisation had in mind I'm sure but thats what has happened.

[northwesterntrains]

East Midlands Trains now look to be getting 4 156s rather than the previous suggested 6: http://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk/EMTrains/AboutUs/News/_EastMidlandsTrainsconfirmsimprovementsforpassengersusingLiverpooltoNorwichroute_.htm

It also looks like East Coast want to swap the 180s on lease to Northern with the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) with Grand Central.  I imagine Grand Central will want the 180s refurbishing for reliability and removing the First Group purple before they hand their HSTs over and I imagine East Coast will want to remove the Grand Central branding from the HST interiors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GRAND_CENTRAL_B_Mark_3_TS_1_42401_Interior_1.JPG and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GRAND_CENTRAL_B_Mark_3_TS_1_42401_Interior_1.JPG )

[Super Guard]

Last thing I heard, the 150/1s are on their way down to Exeter this summer, then we will be waving bon voyage (or similar hand gesture) to the 142s.  143s will be likely to operate Western-BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains) & Severn Beach.  Also there will be no 3-car 150s running, they will be 2-car sets.  Loco-hauled will be going at first opportunity too.