Class 142 Pacers in service on Devon branch lines, 2007 to 2011 - merged topic

[whole diary]

[The SprinterMeister]

Curiously - where there's a will, there's a way.   I can think of some FGW^▸ (First Great Western), self contained branch lines that a 101 could run on as "only train" and release stock for elsewhere. In one or two cases, the "heritage effect" would probably encourage more traffic too.

Only the St Erth-St Ives branch suggests itself. Par - Newquay and Liskeard - Looe are shared with other traffic / non OTO branchlines. Devon branchlines require varying amounts of main line running. The unit also will need to run ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) to a depot off the branchline for servicing / maintainance.

[vacman]

Curiously - where there's a will, there's a way.   I can think of some FGW^▸ (First Great Western), self contained branch lines that a 101 could run on as "only train" and release stock for elsewhere. In one or two cases, the "heritage effect" would probably encourage more traffic too.

Only the St Erth-St Ives branch suggests itself. Par - Newquay and Liskeard - Looe are shared with other traffic / non OTO branchlines. Devon branchlines require varying amounts of main line running. The unit also will need to run ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) to a depot off the branchline for servicing / maintainance.

The Arriva and Chiltern DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s can run anywhere, the safety case restrictions only apply to passenger workings, the Arriva bubble has been all over the network on route learners etc so ECS moves to and from depots wouldn't be a problem, also sharing the line with other traffic wouldn't be a problem as both the Arriva and Chiltern bubbles run over routes with other trains.

[The SprinterMeister]

Interesting subject, Arriva, under Graeme Bunker, bought a class 121 (or 122,not sure) bubble car, refitted it with TPWS^▸ (Train Protection and Warning System), OTMR^▸ (On Train Monitoring Recorder) and CDL^▸ (Central Door Locking) and was still deemed to be cheaper than leasing a class 142 pacer over the period of the franchise, as we know, Chiltern had already done the same a couple of years before. a class 101 or 108 would be ideal for the Looe or Newquay branches!

Class 121 unit if I remember correctly. The unit is indeed fitted with CDL, TPWS OTMR etc, but you will find that some of the passenger doors have been welded up to simplify the fitting of CDL locks of magnetic type. ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) have also bought the two former Severn Tunnel emergency ex 121 cars as a source of spare parts, noteably engines, bogies, transmissions etc.

I think you will have to rule out class 108's however as they are deemed 'Lightweight', stencilled as such and were deemed unable to meet the end-loadings applicable to other units such as class 101. Only 80 tonnes at buffer height, even the 142's will take 150 tonnes buffing load at coupler / headstock height.

[Northerner]

Just goes to show how desperate things are on the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) region that we hate the thought of losing anymore rolling stock even if we knew it was going to happen as in the case of the 5 142s heading back up north later in the year. Any rolling stock is better than severe overcrowding and people being left behind at stations.

Sorry to bring us back to this but does no one else think this links to electricfication. the best way of getting rid of the pacers and having rolling stock would be a cascade. For example if the Midland main line was electricfied HST^▸ (High Speed Train) and long merdians could go to Cross country letting voyagers take over routes like Liverpool-Norwich,Cardiff-Nottingham,Cardiff-Portsmoth and Birmingham-Stanstead in that order cascading 158s and turbostars to get rid of pacers for eternity! (except as fairground rides) AND there would be more capacity.

[ReWind]

What about the "soon to arrive" Turbo units? ( class 172's I believe )

If they are coming, they will relieve the 158's, which will in turn relieve the 150's, which will then relieve the 142's?

[John R]

If you're talking about the ones mentioned in the last few days for the Cardiff-Portsmouth run then the tender hasn't been published yet, let alone an order placed, let alone built. Quite how these can arrive any faster than the anticipated cascade of Class 150s from London Midland beats me. But it would still be an excellent result if they arrived at the same time (mid 2010) instead of the cascade.

Incidentally, with electrification of the Glasgow - Edinburgh, Dunblane and Cumbernauld routes likely to happen, that could release a reasonable quantity of half decent rolling stock by 2012. Though I expect the pressure will be to keep the decent stuff in Scotland and cascade the older stuff.     

[vacman]

If you're talking about the ones mentioned in the last few days for the Cardiff-Portsmouth run then the tender hasn't been published yet, let alone an order placed, let alone built. Quite how these can arrive any faster than the anticipated cascade of Class 150s from London Midland beats me. But it would still be an excellent result if they arrived at the same time (mid 2010) instead of the cascade.

Incidentally, with electrification of the Glasgow - Edinburgh, Dunblane and Cumbernauld routes likely to happen, that could release a reasonable quantity of half decent rolling stock by 2012. Though I expect the pressure will be to keep the decent stuff in Scotland and cascade the older stuff.     

Scotrail's "older" stuff is in the guise of class 156's which are I believe the most reliable DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)??? and are relatively comfortable, won't turn my nose up at them!

[smithy]

If you're talking about the ones mentioned in the last few days for the Cardiff-Portsmouth run then the tender hasn't been published yet, let alone an order placed, let alone built. Quite how these can arrive any faster than the anticipated cascade of Class 150s from London Midland beats me. But it would still be an excellent result if they arrived at the same time (mid 2010) instead of the cascade.

Incidentally, with electrification of the Glasgow - Edinburgh, Dunblane and Cumbernauld routes likely to happen, that could release a reasonable quantity of half decent rolling stock by 2012. Though I expect the pressure will be to keep the decent stuff in Scotland and cascade the older stuff.     

Scotrail's "older" stuff is in the guise of class 156's which are I believe the most reliable DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)??? and are relatively comfortable, won't turn my nose up at them!

agreed class 156 are a cracking dmu far better reliability than the stuff we have got,another plus point is the disabled access toilet.

[eightf48544]

Sorry to bring us back to this but does no one else think this links to electricfication. the best way of getting rid of the pacers and having rolling stock would be a cascade. For example if the Midland main line was electricfied HST^▸ (High Speed Train) and long merdians could go to Cross country letting voyagers take over routes like Liverpool-Norwich,Cardiff-Nottingham,Cardiff-Portsmoth and Birmingham-Stanstead in that order cascading 158s and turbostars to get rid of pacers for eternity! (except as fairground rides) AND there would be more capacity.

I agree with Northerner link, it does come down to electrification. There is no point in building a large number of new DMUS with 30 years life when there are plenty of units with 20 years life that would be displaced by electrification. Once the major routes are electrified and long distance trains are back to loco hauled there be sufficient newish DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) to run the branches for 20/30 years when who knows we might have fuel cell powered units.

As I've said before don't hold your breath on new units and I wouldn't be surprised if the cascades are changed when any new units are delivered. until then it's a case of rearanging the deckchairs on the Titantic.

[vacman]

Electrification is probably at least ten years off, so by then the 15x units will be pretty much life expired so our new units now will then be cascaded to places that will never be electrified such as rural Wales, Cornwall and Devon Branches also places such as the far north of Scotland, so building new units now does actually make sense.

[Northerner]

Electrification is probably at least ten years off, so by then the 15x units will be pretty much life expired so our new units now will then be cascaded to places that will never be electrified such as rural Wales, Cornwall and Devon Branches also places such as the far north of Scotland, so building new units now does actually make sense.

Yes but building new units dampens cases for elctrification. A perfect example of this is the snow hill lines. In a few years the 172s will be full to the brim out of birmingham, everyone will winge at the dft and the lines will not be electrified. However if the lines were electrified then the new units could go to Northern and first great western and the snow hill lines would get better capacity, nice units, better journey times and the DaFT^» (Department for Transport - critical sounding abbreviation I discourage - about) will have done something wright!!!!

[ReWind]

Whats more important/profitable to electrify though?

The Snow Hill line of FGW^▸ (First Great Western) main lines to BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) & Plymouth?

[vacman]

Electrification is probably at least ten years off, so by then the 15x units will be pretty much life expired so our new units now will then be cascaded to places that will never be electrified such as rural Wales, Cornwall and Devon Branches also places such as the far north of Scotland, so building new units now does actually make sense.

Yes but building new units dampens cases for elctrification. A perfect example of this is the snow hill lines. In a few years the 172s will be full to the brim out of birmingham, everyone will winge at the dft and the lines will not be electrified. However if the lines were electrified then the new units could go to Northern and first great western and the snow hill lines would get better capacity, nice units, better journey times and the DaFT^» (Department for Transport - critical sounding abbreviation I discourage - about) will have done something wright!!!!

So 10 years of crap is acceptable just so the case for electrification can be strengthened?? I think not! the Snow hill lines will never be electrified in our lifetime anyway!

[Northerner]

Surely it won't take 10 years to electrify the mml

[John R]

Not if there's the political will, but that hasn't been there for the last 30 years. The fall in oil prices won't be helping the argument either, although long term decisions shouldn't be made on the basis of short term fluctuations.