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Author Topic: A bit of 'outside the box' thinking to avoid cancelling a service.  (Read 12338 times)
JayMac
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« on: February 24, 2010, 17:16:46 »

Today I travellled from Swindon to Bristol Parkway on the 1438 (1345 ex PAD» (Paddington (London) - next trains) to Swansea) and we were delayed departing Swindon by 25 mins because the front power car had 'technical issues.'

Overhearing radio traffic between station staff and later confirmation by the TM (Train Manager, or possibly Ticket Machine, depending on context), was that the front power car's AWS (Automatic Warning System - an arrangement of permanent magnets and electro-magnets that convey information about the associated signal to the train driver) wasn't functioning correctly but we were given permission to proceed to BPW» (Bristol Parkway - next trains), I guess with just ATP (Automatic Train Protection).

To avoid cancelling the service, after BPW the train proceeded to Filton Abbey Wood where it reversed so that it could utilise the other power car for the remainder of the journey to Swansea. I'm assuming this was done because ATP isn't fitted on the line all the way to Swansea. Is this correct?

I wonder what happened to this HST (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) at Swansea. Whether it was taken out of service or reversed again to continue with its diagram. Or even fixed!
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devon_metro
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« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2010, 17:28:34 »

If AWS (Automatic Warning System - an arrangement of permanent magnets and electro-magnets that convey information about the associated signal to the train driver) is duff it needs to be turned at the nearest opportunity. Obviously it wasn't considered convenient at Swindon. ATP (Automatic Train Protection) is irrelevant.
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super tm
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« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2010, 20:12:02 »

Today I travellled from Swindon to Bristol Parkway on the 1438 (1345 ex PAD» (Paddington (London) - next trains) to Swansea) and we were delayed departing Swindon by 25 mins because the front power car had 'technical issues.'

Overhearing radio traffic between station staff and later confirmation by the TM (Train Manager, or possibly Ticket Machine, depending on context), was that the front power car's AWS (Automatic Warning System - an arrangement of permanent magnets and electro-magnets that convey information about the associated signal to the train driver) wasn't functioning correctly but we were given permission to proceed to BPW» (Bristol Parkway - next trains), I guess with just ATP (Automatic Train Protection).

To avoid cancelling the service, after BPW the train proceeded to Filton Abbey Wood where it reversed so that it could utilise the other power car for the remainder of the journey to Swansea. I'm assuming this was done because ATP isn't fitted on the line all the way to Swansea. Is this correct?

I wonder what happened to this HST (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) at Swansea. Whether it was taken out of service or reversed again to continue with its diagram. Or even fixed!

You are correct.
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readytostart
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« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2010, 20:14:57 »

If travelling over an area equipped with ATP (Automatic Train Protection) and will not venture out of that area the train can proceed normally.
If travelling outside of an ATP equipped area and a competent person can be provided (the guard usually) then the train can proceed at line speed (except in fog or falling snow) to a place where the train can be taken out of service, turned, replaced etc.
If no competent person can be provided the train can not exceed 40mph to a place where it can be dealt with as above.

The guard in this case is required to have full route knowledge and ensures the driver reacts appropriately to any forthcoming signals or speed restrictions etc.
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JayMac
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« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2010, 21:46:47 »

If AWS (Automatic Warning System - an arrangement of permanent magnets and electro-magnets that convey information about the associated signal to the train driver) is duff it needs to be turned at the nearest opportunity. Obviously it wasn't considered convenient at Swindon. 

Or indeed even possible to turn at Swindon!
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inspector_blakey
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« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2010, 22:24:40 »

If travelling outside of an ATP (Automatic Train Protection) equipped area and a competent person can be provided (the guard usually) then the train can proceed at line speed (except in fog or falling snow) to a place where the train can be taken out of service, turned, replaced etc.

Does this require two guards, one to ride "up front" and one to work the train? Or is it permitted to operate an HST (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) with only one guard and him/her riding in the front cab, even though they're effectively isolated from the rest of the train?
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readytostart
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« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2010, 22:48:49 »

Does this require two guards, one to ride "up front" and one to work the train? Or is it permitted to operate an HST (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) with only one guard and him/her riding in the front cab, even though they're effectively isolated from the rest of the train?
I don't think it does, I can't remember being specifically told that I must travel on a specific part of a HST. I suppose you can, in an emergency get to the train via the engine room. In most circumstances the TOC (Train Operating Company) would try to get another competent person to ride with the driver, ie another Driver, Guard, or competent manager to allow the train's booked guard to travel with the rest of the train.
Probably comes down to an individual TOCs contingency plan rather than a rule book requirement.
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JayMac
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« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2010, 23:12:18 »

I don't know what was the case with this particular service. The TM (Train Manager, or possibly Ticket Machine, depending on context) was still doing his normal rounds between SWI» (Swindon - next trains) and BPW» (Bristol Parkway - next trains). Unsure as to whether another 'competent' person was up front, although there was a protracted staff meeting at the forward pointy end whilst we stood at SWI.
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JayMac
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« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2010, 23:31:04 »

Incidentally, top marks to the Train Manager who gave clear information over the PA (Public Address (broadcast loudspeaker announcements) or Passenger Assist (railway staff providing physical assistance to passengers with mobility issues), depending on context) regarding the delay and the reasons why the train would reverse after BPW» (Bristol Parkway - next trains), using laymans terms. He then walked the train, answering pax questions about onward connections in South and West Wales.

A lady sat in front of me was concerned that she'd miss her connection to Milford Haven and subsequently face a 2 hour delay. I got chatting with her and learnt this was her first train journey for nearly 10 years. I offered advice with regard to claiming compensation and gave her a FGW (First Great Western) compo form that I happened to have on me.

As I left at BPW the TM (Train Manager, or possibly Ticket Machine, depending on context) was still busy liaising with Control regarding arranging onward road transport for pax travelling beyond Swansea who were likely to miss their connections and face a 2 hour wait for their next service.

I'd like to pass on praise to FGW for this TMs sterling customer service, but I neglected to get his name (I was distracted by a brand spanking Class 70 parked at BPW - God, they're ugly Grin ). I've got the headcode for the service (1B40), but if anyone out there in coffeeshop land knows his name, then please PM me.... so much better to include a name in a praising e-mail.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 23:49:16 by bignosemac » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2010, 03:23:19 »

If you've got a cancellation on your ticket the conductor is also identifiable by the 3- or 4-digit code at right angles to the date and reporting number.

The lady heading to Milford should have been OK, as if she missed her service I believe FGW (First Great Western) policy would be to provide a taxi from Swansea (or possibly Carmarthen). Certainly FGW staff have told me before when I've been heading for Whitland that if we missed the connection a taxi would be provided if the wait for the next train was more than an hour ("don't worry sir, it's one of our policies, it's what we do"!)
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« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2010, 19:54:50 »


The guard in this case is required to have full route knowledge and ensures the driver reacts appropriately to any forthcoming signals or speed restrictions etc.

Guards cannot do this as they do not have the required knowledge.  Only a qualified driver would be allowed.  Guards route knowlegde and drivers route knowledge is different.

There are only two occasions when the guard can be a competent person to travel with the driver.  If the DSD (Driver's Safety Device) is isolated and the guard would be able to stop the train if the driver became incapacitated.  Also if it is dark and the driver is requested to examine the line he can ask the gurard to join him as an extra pair of eyes to keep a look out.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2010, 20:01:30 by super tm » Logged
JayMac
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« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2010, 22:42:09 »

DSD (Driver's Safety Device)? Is that the foot treddle? What's DSD stand for?
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devon_metro
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« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2010, 22:59:32 »

It is indeed the Vigilance device, not sure what the tla is though. Driver Safety Device perhaps?
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inspector_blakey
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« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2010, 23:01:28 »

Exactly. Well, strictly speaking it's Driver's Safety Device but that's beyond splitting hairs!
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JayMac
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« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2010, 23:14:33 »

Quite a lot of abbreviations in a train cab aren't there?

ATP (Automatic Train Protection), AWS (Automatic Warning System - an arrangement of permanent magnets and electro-magnets that convey information about the associated signal to the train driver), TPWS (Train Protection and Warning System), DRA (Driver's Reminder Appliance - a device in the driving cab of a train that allows the driver to set a reminder when brought to a stand at a signal showing a stop aspect. When set, it prevents the driver applying power and moving off.), DSD (Driver's Safety Device)..... any more?
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