Uneccessary Delays

[whole diary]

[woody]

Caught the 1735(1406ex Padd) FGW^▸ (First Great Western) HST^▸ (High Speed Train) from Exeter(platform 4) back to Plymouth Saturday.Train arrives on time- good so far.At 1735 nothing happens-1738 still not moved so looking out of the carraige window I notice the "down main" showing green on the adjacent platform 3.Then in roles from Central the delayed all stops 1726 142 from Exmouth to Paignton.Thinks ah surely they will let the now delayed 1735 HST go(1st stop Newton Abbot),er no- after more faffing about out rolls the Paignton stopper in front of us which we then proceeded to follow slowly behind until finally overtaking it at Dawlish Warren as it stopped at Exeter St Thomas and Starcross further delaying our journey.What were Exeter panel playing at holding an on time main line train in order to allow a delayed stopper to arrive/depart in front of it.
 We get enough delays to services as it is between Penzance/Plymouth/Exeter at busy times due to insufficient time in the timetable to cope with the volume of passengers and the number of station stops.The timetable on certain peak FGW trains  needs tweeking in Devon/Cornwall to take account of reality if a repeat of last Summers fiasco is to be avoided wherby certain peak time FGW HSTs from Penzance to Paddington (most notibably the up 0844 and 1000 Penzance/Paddingtons) were regularly delayed by 5 to 25 minutes by the the time they reached Exeter week in week out.

[Super Guard]

so looking out of the carraige window I notice the "down main" showing green on the adjacent platform 3.Then in roles from Central the delayed all stops 1726 142 from Exmouth to Paignton.

The train would have had to arrive first before the route could be reset and only then the signal would show DM.

Thinks ah surely they will let the now delayed 1735 HST^▸ (High Speed Train) go(1st stop Newton Abbot),er no- after more faffing about out rolls the Paignton stopper in front of us which we then proceeded to follow slowly behind until finally overtaking it at Dawlish Warren as it stopped at Exeter St Thomas and Starcross further delaying our journey.What were Exeter panel playing at holding an on time main line train in order to allow a delayed stopper to arrive/depart in front of it.
 We get enough delays to services as it is between Penzance/Plymouth/Exeter at busy times due to insufficient time in the timetable to cope with the volume of passengers and the number of station stops.The timetable on certain peak FGW^▸ (First Great Western) trains  needs tweeking in Devon/Cornwall to take account of reality if a repeat of last Summers fiasco is to be avoided wherby certain peak time FGW HSTs from Penzance to Paddington (most notibably the up 0844 and 1000 Penzance/Paddingtons) were regularly delayed by 5 to 25 minutes by the the time they reached Exeter week in week out.

If the PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-PNZ was already in the platform before the train arrived from Central, I can only assume there was a problem with the PNZ service you are not aware of and Exeter Panel gave priority to the stopper...  Perhaps customer assistance issue, train fault you weren't told about, police attendance, awaiting train crew/driver.

The fact you were waiting before the stopper arrived from Central means that Exeter Panel had to make a concious decision to let it out first -- there is no way they would give priority to the stopper under normal circumstances, so something else was afoot, and just because you weren't personally told does not make Exeter Panel incompetent.

[woody]

so looking out of the carraige window I notice the "down main" showing green on the adjacent platform 3.Then in roles from Central the delayed all stops 1726 142 from Exmouth to Paignton.

The train would have had to arrive first before the route could be reset and only then the signal would show DM.

Thinks ah surely they will let the now delayed 1735 HST^▸ (High Speed Train) go(1st stop Newton Abbot),er no- after more faffing about out rolls the Paignton stopper in front of us which we then proceeded to follow slowly behind until finally overtaking it at Dawlish Warren as it stopped at Exeter St Thomas and Starcross further delaying our journey.What were Exeter panel playing at holding an on time main line train in order to allow a delayed stopper to arrive/depart in front of it.

 We get enough delays to services as it is between Penzance/Plymouth/Exeter at busy times due to insufficient time in the timetable to cope with the volume of passengers and the number of station stops.The timetable on certain peak FGW^▸ (First Great Western) trains  needs tweeking in Devon/Cornwall to take account of reality if a repeat of last Summers fiasco is to be avoided wherby certain peak time FGW HSTs from Penzance to Paddington (most notibably the up 0844 and 1000 Penzance/Paddingtons) were regularly delayed by 5 to 25 minutes by the the time they reached Exeter week in week out.

If the PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-PNZ was already in the platform before the train arrived from Central, I can only assume there was a problem with the PNZ service you are not aware of and Exeter Panel gave priority to the stopper...  Perhaps customer assistance issue, train fault you weren't told about, police attendance, awaiting train crew/driver.

The fact you were waiting before the stopper arrived from Central means that Exeter Panel had to make a concious decision to let it out first -- there is no way they would give priority to the stopper under normal circumstances, so something else was afoot, and just because you weren't personally told does not make Exeter Panel incompetent.

 Slight misunderstanding here,I simply meant to say that the delayed 142 stopper was allowed to arrive from central and was then given the road ahead of our waiting HST.I was hoping that if it was not Exeter panels fault perhaps someone could enlighten me as to why this happened thats all.

[Super Guard]

I'll see if I can find out what happened when i'm next in.

[Deltic]

We recently had a post about connections not being held at Swindon and I suspect this is the other side of that coin.

If all is running to time, the 16.55 Exmouth to Paignton arrives at Exeter St Davids at 17.24 and departs at 17.26, ten minutes ahead of the 15.06 Paddington to Penzance HST^▸ (High Speed Train).  The local service is overtaken by the HST at Dawlish Warren and arrives at Newton Abbot at 18.05, 5 minutes before the 09.00 Glasgow to Penzance Cross-Country service.  If the HST is given priority, commuters from, say, central Exeter to Plymouth might miss their connection at St Davids and the local service might cause more delay to the Cross-Country train, which is planned to follow it.  There might have been an imaginative solution where the Glasgow - Penzance overtook the Exmouth - Paignton at Dawlish Warren instead or possibly been combined with the following service from St James Park to Paignton but that, in turn, would have resulted in cancellation one of the return services between Paignton and Newton Abbot.  So the signallers decided to keep everything in the right order probably bearing in mind that the long distance trains would still be within 10 minutes of the right time by the time they got to Penzance and therefore not damage the statistics.

[woody]

Thanks for the explanation there had to be a reason.

[chrisoates]

 So the signallers decided to keep everything in the right order probably bearing in mind that the long distance trains would still be within 10 minutes of the right time by the time they got to Penzance and therefore not damage the statistics.

Somewhat similar to the situation with the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) Voyager and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) HST^▸ (High Speed Train) that passed through Plymouth at teatime - the HST stopped all stations and the Voyager just sat at signals following it - both were usually late at Penzance.
Situation resolved by terminating the XC service at Plymouth !

I like Dawlish Warren but not enough to enjoy the current 10 minute stopovers there that are in the current timetable - what's with that ? - very frustrating when I'm going to Dawlish for an ice-cream on my day off and am likely to spend 8 hours on trains already.



 

[Super Guard]

I like Dawlish Warren but not enough to enjoy the current 10 minute stopovers there that are in the current timetable - what's with that ? - very frustrating when I'm going to Dawlish for an ice-cream on my day off and am likely to spend 8 hours on trains already.

If you change the Paginton-Exeter times so they don't hold at DWW, you need to make sure they don't hold up the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) High Speed or XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) services.  Once you've managed that, you need to make sure that the services then running to Exmouth do not clash with the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) trains to/from Waterloo and on/off the Exmouth branch.  Of course then having done all that, the services that run through to Barnstaple using Cowley Bridge Junction now have to avoid the mainline services to/from London & North.

Simples 

It can be frustrating (especially for those only going to Dawlish), but I suppose this is the consequence of running a railway near full to capacity.

[woody]

It can be frustrating (especially for those only going to Dawlish), but I suppose this is the consequence of running a railway near full to capacity.
[/quote]
Caught the slighty delayed 1735 ex Paddington HST^▸ (High Speed Train) from Exeter to Plymouth today and guess what got caught behind the 1726 Exeter/Paignton stopper(again).Our HST had to crawl behind it all the way from the Warren to Newton Abbot adding another 5 minutes to our already delayed train.A friend of mine who caught the slightly later 1845 X Country from Exeter to Penzance told me his train also crawled from the Warren to Newton Abbot presumably behind another Paignton stopper.Journey times west of Exeter to Plymouth and Cornwall are already slow enough as it is.
 There seems to be a capacity/pathing problem developing here between Exeter and Newton Abbot.

[Super Guard]

Caught the slighty delayed 1735 ex Paddington HST^▸ (High Speed Train) from Exeter to Plymouth today and guess what got caught behind the 1726 Exeter/Paignton stopper(again).Our HST had to crawl behind it all the way from the Warren to Newton Abbot adding another 5 minutes to our already delayed train.A friend of mine who caught the slightly later 1845 X Country from Exeter to Penzance told me his train also crawled from the Warren to Newton Abbot presumably behind another Paignton stopper.Journey times west of Exeter to Plymouth and Cornwall are already slow enough as it is.
There seems to be a capacity/pathing problem developing here between Exeter and Newton Abbot.

Sounds like the problems are actually occurring before the trains arrive in Exeter, hence why the stopper gets let out first at DWW.  With a half hourly service to Paignton in the evening peak, there are going to keep being problems. 

I know for a fact the "slightly delayed" 1736 left Exeter pretty much 10mins late so was already screwed as far as " on-time statistics" were concerned, so perhaps keep the stopper on-time and one less "delayed" service?  If the earlier delay to the 1736 PNZ was due to network rail then even more delay due to keeping the stopper on-time would get charged back to NR^» (Network Rail - home page) anyway.

I might add that the 1928 stopper was held for the delayed 1914 Plymouth and 1922 Penzance services to leave Exeter, and in this case the stopper has 9 minutes wait at Newton Abbot.

[devon_metro]

As Donkey Guard says, the 1726 EXD^» (Exeter St Davids - next trains) PGN gets overtaken by the 1506 PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) PNZ at DWW, however as it was late it was allowed out first in order to only delay 1 train. The around at Paignton are quite tight so any delays might jepardise connections at NTA^» (Newton Abbott - next trains) in the Up direction.

[woody]

As you say Donkey guard "With a half hourly service to Paignton in the evening peak, there are going to keep being problems."

[Super Guard]

Well lets face it the commuters need to get home, and the stoppers are wedged enough as it is with a half hourly service.  Generally the stoppers are running to time give a minute or two, the problem is the HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) services are getting to Exeter to late in the first place, so perhaps people should be looking at to the reasons why... (and stop picking on the Donkeys  )

[Zoe]

In this case there is very little that can be done as due to the sea wall and river sections additional loops or four tracking would be impossible.  The only place where it could in theory be done would be the Exminster area where you could reopen the station and provide an additional place for fast trains to pass.

[devon_metro]

The main problem is delays between Exmouth and Exeter. I've used the 1726 from Exeter St Davids which starts at Exmouth, and it was 2 car 142. Simply couldn't cope with the number of people so was delayed.