Penalty fares go live in April 2010

[whole diary]

[Mookiemoo]

In my experience the proverbial little old lady will always have been down to the ticket office in the morning to buy a ticket.  Little old ladies dont like to travel without a ticket its just not in their nature 

hmm - I remember one peak train from RDG^▸ (Rail Delivery Group, or Reading station, depending on context).

Little old lady got on however was perfectly able bodied.  shoved her case on the rack after looking and seeing standard was a llittle cosy.

TM^▸ (Train Manager, or possibly Ticket Machine, depending on context) comes down - you have a standard ticket, you need to move - blah blah blah.  I need help with my case dear .

Well by this time we were close to Oxford so the TM had to go do the doors - and the little old SCROTE knew that north of oxford she had precious little chance of being evicted due to the SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening). 

She got off at WOS^» (Worcester Shrub Hill - next trains) with me.

Had I not been with a client, I'd have happily removed her case and moved her on myself if she was that disabled.

[John R]

But surely your client would have ever so impressed that you were helping LOL^▸ ('laughing out loud') move her case into standard. 

[thetrout]

I've had the old lady with Standard ticket in First scenario too... She actually refused to move unless I was moved... Guard looked a little bewildered as to what to do... Couldn't move me as I had First Ticket... So I kindly offered to pack up my equipment and move myself down to H... A right pain... But after working an 18 hour shift (Had a Mission Critical Network Server Fail) I was not in the mood for a "Youth of Today" and the "There must be a mistake, he can't have a First Ticket" lecture she was giving to me and the guard... The guard was most greatful that I moved and did come and find me later in the journey and apologised...!

Also on XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) Trains... The "I have to stand because this train is overcrowded and this little sod is getting free tea and biscuits" is also a little tiresome after a while...!!

[readytostart]

Also on XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) Trains... The "I have to stand because this train is overcrowded and this little sod is getting free tea and biscuits" is also a little tiresome after a while...!!

Sorry LoL, this young gentleman is sat down and drinking tea and eating biscuits because he had the foresight to pre-plan his journey, reserve his seat and the complimentary refreshements were factored into the price of his ticket, now, there are unreservable priority labelled seats in standard, now lets go and move people out of those!

[Glovidge]

What happens when a train is overcrowded and I've got an advanced reservation in standard but as everyone is standing everywhere, including the vestibules, I have no choice but to stand? Would I be entitled to a refund?

This happened on a regular occurence on XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) trains last year to me.

[inspector_blakey]

Check the passenger's charter for the relevant operator. Generally if you do have a reservation and have to stand for more than a given length of time you are entitled to at least a partial refund (although it may not be much). It helps if you can get a member of train staff to validate your claim at the time.

If you do not have a reservation and have to stand then you are not entitled to any money back.

[Brucey]

What happens when a train is overcrowded and I've got an advanced reservation in standard but as everyone is standing everywhere, including the vestibules, I have no choice but to stand? Would I be entitled to a refund?

This happened on a regular occurence on XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) trains last year to me.

XC give a refund of 5% if the staff cannot find you a seat within 15 minutes of you requesting one.  You have to ask them to endorse your ticket/seat reservation coupon.

As a comparison, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) give a full 100% refund if they cannot provide you with a seat.  I've claimed under this once in the past and they didn't even comment that my ticket wasn't endorsed (although I did send them a photograph of the overcrowding and pointed out that a 2 coach 150 was running a 3 coach 158 service during the rush hour).

Edited to add: obviously you need to have a seat reservation for that service in order to claim under one of these schemes.

[Brucey]

I've just been thinking about this a bit more.  The failure to include most of the non-FGW^▸ (First Great Western) in the Penalty Fares zone may hinder SWT^▸ (South West Trains)'s penalty fare scheme.

Here is an example:
Passenger boards train at Cosham where PFs^▸ (Penalty Fare) only apply to journeys on SWT and SN.
Passenger alights at Portsmouth & Southsea (PMS), hoping to chance it through the wide gate.
Gates are closed so passenger goes to sin bin and asks for single from Cosham to PMS.
RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector, or Retail Price Index, depending on context) wants to give Penalty Fare but passenger says they were on a FGW train (whether they were or not is difficult to prove).
RPI then has to issue the most expensive adult single and scrote gets away without paying PF.

I would have thought that SWT would be pressing FGW to include all stations served in the scheme, not just those which they operate themselves.

[paul7575]

I've just been thinking about this a bit more.  The failure to include most of the non-FGW^▸ (First Great Western) in the Penalty Fares zone may hinder SWT^▸ (South West Trains)'s penalty fare scheme.

Here is an example:
Passenger boards train at Cosham where PFs^▸ (Penalty Fare) only apply to journeys on SWT and SN.
Passenger alights at Portsmouth & Southsea (PMS), hoping to chance it through the wide gate.

I don't see the significance of 'wide gate' in this context. It is a automatic gate as well, still needs a ticket.  Clearly older installations had/ or still have a wide (manual) gate, but that is no longer the case here.

Paul

[Brucey]

I've just been thinking about this a bit more.  The failure to include most of the non-FGW^▸ (First Great Western) in the Penalty Fares zone may hinder SWT^▸ (South West Trains)'s penalty fare scheme.

Here is an example:
Passenger boards train at Cosham where PFs^▸ (Penalty Fare) only apply to journeys on SWT and SN.
Passenger alights at Portsmouth & Southsea (PMS), hoping to chance it through the wide gate.

I don't see the significance of 'wide gate' in this context. It is a automatic gate as well, still needs a ticket.  Clearly older installations had/ or still have a wide (manual) gate, but that is no longer the case here.

Paul

Some staff regularly leave the wide gate open during busy times and manually check tickets.  You can often pass through without actually showing a ticket or possibly by showing an old/out of date ticket.

[smokey]

Say Boys and Girls better get used to carrying a Bag of Coins around with you.

You can not buy a Ticket for less than ^5 at a TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) with a ^20 note.

So the Ticket M/c is Fully operational, but You can't buy your Ticket because you only have a ^20 note.

SO what happens then??

[vacman]

Say Boys and Girls better get used to carrying a Bag of Coins around with you.

You can not buy a Ticket for less than ^5 at a TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) with a ^20 note.

So the Ticket M/c is Fully operational, but You can't buy your Ticket because you only have a ^20 note.

SO what happens then??

go to the booking office

[Mookiemoo]

Say Boys and Girls better get used to carrying a Bag of Coins around with you.

You can not buy a Ticket for less than ^5 at a TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) with a ^20 note.

So the Ticket M/c is Fully operational, but You can't buy your Ticket because you only have a ^20 note.

SO what happens then??

go to the booking office

But you turn up expecting to use the TVM because you have before and then find you ^20 doesnt get accepted.

But there is a little old lady at the booking office (if there is one) booking a trip of a life time to inverness and wanting all the possibilities .

But oh - there is your train

I used to have this argument with my Dad all the time (RIP hence used) - he would leave so much extra time in his schedule he became a soduko addict.

Seriously - if a journey took 20 minutes, he'd leave 50 minutes early!

So how much time SHOULD a passenger allow to get a ticket from a station?  five minutes? 10?

I was buying a ticket in ludlow yesterday for travel tomorrow and I swear - it was 25 minutes of standing behind two people making an advance journey plan!  They have two cashiers and both were occupied for that long!  Given a train every 30 minutes, I'd have been yelling about can I get a ticket for the next train please had I been in a PF^▸ (Penalty Fare) area.

[Chris from Nailsea]

In 'the good old days', of our unfailingly polite station master at Nailsea & Backwell, 'Dave' would have asked the little old lady to 'please just wait a moment', while he served a couple of other customers whose train was now arriving.

Diplomacy. 

[Mookiemoo]

In 'the good old days', of our unfailingly polite station master at Nailsea & Backwell, 'Dave' would have asked the little old lady to 'please just wait a moment', while he served a couple of other customers whose train was now arriving.

Diplomacy. 

What I got told - on the one occasion I did this

Was.....

I've got half her journey in the basket I can't do yoursd before I complete