Cleanliness of FGW stock

[whole diary]

[Trowres]

The FGW^▸ (First Great Western) 158s seem to suffer badly from dirty windows, while SWT^▸ (South West Trains)'s similar trains do not. Is there some major difference in the cleaning programme / equipment to explain this?

[inspector_blakey]

It may be partly explained by the intensive use that FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s stock gets, compared to the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit). SWT has plenty of spare units so they spend a lot more time hanging around Salisbury depot being cossetted than your average FGW 158!

It's also possible that there's a difference in cleaning regime - for example, I don't know if all of FGW's units finish their diagrams at a depot with a carriage washer every night, whereas I'm 90% sure all of SWT's do.

Internally from fairly wide experience I've almost always found FGW units to be very clean (and certainly much better than in the days of Wessex and Thames), the odd exceptions usually being busy trains late at night containing more than their fair share of boozed-up pond life.

[grahame]

Looking back, Wessex got into trouble with Passenger Focus for the filthy state of their trains at one point, so this is nothing new (I'm afraid I had a bit of a gripe that PF^▸ (Penalty Fare) has "how clean are the trains" in their remit, but NOT "are the trains actually running at the time that people want to travel" - but that's an aside).

I've been on Southern, SWT^▸ (South West Trains) and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) services over the past few weeks - various journeys - and the "West" fleet has been far least clean, with a shockingly filthy 150 on Saturday on the 'local' out from Bristol to Bradford-on-Avon.  Perhaps FGW have a different paint finish / vinyl that attracts dirt?

Always one to take advantage ... the state of the windows made a beautiful atmospheric filter for photographs:



although changing the focus to the windows was a bit depressing:

[12hoursunday]

There is a memo going around re these dirty DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s. It all stems from the cold weather back along when the decision to isolated washers was made. Days and days of not washing has made the dirt stick to the bodysides so well that when put through those wash plants the brushes left most of it where it was.

There is a program of manual washes taking place and I in fact saw a 158 going through a scrub with some chaps armed with big buckets and brushes at the 'Marsh' last night!

[Brucey]

I find the inside of FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s 158s to be very clean.  However the outside is always dirty.  But then does it really matter whether the outside is clean or not?

I sometimes stand at Cosham and see an SWT^▸ (South West Trains) EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) on the opposite platform which is sparkling.  Then an FGW 158 pulls out and it is filthy!

[Tim]

  But then does it really matter whether the outside is clean or not?

it matters when the windows are dirty.  If  the carriage washers can't clean teh wholw train (at times of breakdown, freezing weather or draught), an effort could still be made on the windows.

[matt473]

This is a prime example of the age old problem of cleaner rolling stock or those that are out providing services. There is unlikely to be any slack in the diagrams in the short or medium term as the fleet is over streched as it is. Considering the problems as a results of fatalities and accident damage, the units are not in to bad a condition as result of the effort put in by staff. If only there was more slack to ensre all the problems could be sorted, however this won't happen unless FGW^▸ (First Great Western) recieved a large number of units which we all know will never happen

[smithy]

There is a memo going around re these dirty DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s. It all stems from the cold weather back along when the decision to isolated washers was made. Days and days of not washing has made the dirt stick to the bodysides so well that when put through those wash plants the brushes left most of it where it was.

There is a program of manual washes taking place and I in fact saw a 158 going through a scrub with some chaps armed with big buckets and brushes at the 'Marsh' last night!

the quality of the wash plant has to be questioned as 158's stabled at fratton go through the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) wash and come out clean,the wash plant down there must have better brushes than FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s.

[Tim]

the quality of the wash plant has to be questioned as 158's stabled at fratton go through the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) wash and come out clean,the wash plant down there must have better brushes than FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s.

IIRC^▸ ('if I recall/remember/read correctly') I heard an explanation once of SWT's exterior cleanliness being down to their having "acid" train washing plants rather than detergent washes which don't do very much if the train is very dirty. 

It was a long time ago I heard this explanation and I might be wrong, but their would appear to be such a thing as an "acid train wash" judging by this link which happens to be illustrated with a SWT EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit).

http://www.trainwash.co.uk/bingham/Services/TrainCare/AdvancedDetergents/AdvanceSafeAcid/tabid/193/language/en-GB/Default.aspx

 

[JayMac]

The talk of slack in the diagrams is surely a bit of a red herring. There's a large amount of slack say between 2 and 5am. Is it not more likely a case of a keeping costs to a minimum and not spending that little bit extra on staff and/or decent carriage washers.

[inspector_blakey]

Doesn't seem to be an across-the-board policy though. The LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley) fleet usually looks reasonably tidy externally and more often than not you can see your face in the side of an HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)).

[smithy]

Doesn't seem to be an across-the-board policy though. The LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley) fleet usually looks reasonably tidy externally and more often than not you can see your face in the side of an HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)).

very good point it would seem only the west fleet that is dirty,with the exception of the pacers in my opinion.

so it leads back to the wash plant at SPM^▸ (St Philip's Marsh (Bristol depot)) as being the problem as it would seem every other depots is working fine???

[JayMac]

Can't we get 'Bob-a-Job' on the case? They do a grand job in supermarket car parks of a Sunday. 

[gaf71]

I know that the wash plant at Exeter doesn't get used, when the temperature drops below a certain point (freezing I presume!)

[smithy]

I know that the wash plant at Exeter doesn't get used, when the temperature drops below a certain point (freezing I presume!)

thats correct at freezing point the same as other depots but when in operation it seems to clean a lot better than bristols