Role of the dispatcher

[whole diary]

[Tim]

Looking back to the Ladbrook Grove crash of just over ten years ago, the driver of the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) and Turbo were both killed and it was the guard of the HST who made an emergency call and two members of Virgin Trains staff travelling on the HST who protected the line.

Do the Strathclyde ticket examiners know how to protect a train?  If not, why not?

I know that the analogy is imperfect but airlines employ cabin crew primarily to assist in passenger evacuation in an emergency.  It is an important safety critical role and cabin crew are trained and assessed on it to a reasonabily high standard and in an emergency they can and do make a difference and have saved lives.  But, in a normal flight all of their attention is focussed on customer service.  Surely this demonstrates that having customer facing staff focussed completely on the passengers does not preclude those same staff being available to deal with an emergency be it rowdy passenegrs or a crash.  (the analogy is imprefect becaus ethe cabin crew do open and close the doors)

[super tm]

Do the Strathclyde ticket examiners know how to protect a train?  If not, why not?
 

Because they are DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard))

[IndustryInsider]

Your arguements convince me that it is better to have two members of staff on a train than just one.  However, that is not quite the same thing as saying that the driver shouldn't be permitted to control the doors and dispatch the train leaving the second member of staff to control/look after the passengers.  The Scotrail proposal for their new service includes DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)), but not single manning of trains.  The trains would be staffed by a driver and a ticket examiner.

I take your point, but as someone else eluded to, it's the tip of the iceberg scenario.  Even if Scotrail were going to provide revenue protection for every train so that there was somebody else other than the driver, would they cancel the train if nobody was available due to sickness, etc?  If they would still run the train "because it's perfectly safe to do so as it's a DOO service" then it's no surprise that the likes of the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) are very concerned that soon afterwards that would lead to it becoming commonplace not to have anybody on board except the driver.

The RMT will continue to fight tooth and nail against any move that either reduces the number of staff, or reduces the role of their staff - whether it's in essence a perfectly sensible solution to saving money, or a more underhand tactic by TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s management.  The lack of trust in this particular example is evidence that there is a long way to go before that situation changes!

[Phil]

Going back to the role of the dispatcher, at least two stations I know of have resident, or at least regular, unofficial dispatchers. The young chap at Chippenham wanders along the platform shouting the list of station stops (just ahead of the announcement, like an echo in reverse) and the gentleman at Bath Spa even wears a home-made bib with "dispatcher" written on in felt tip pen. I assume this has been agreed to by the station staff and it all seems rather harmless really, but I'd imagine there are places where it's caused problems - probably the same places where photographers have been escorted from the premises.

[John R]

Even if Scotrail were going to provide revenue protection for every train so that there was somebody else other than the driver, would they cancel the train if nobody was available due to sickness, etc?  If they would still run the train "because it's perfectly safe to do so as it's a DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) service" then it's no surprise that the likes of the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) are very concerned that soon afterwards that would lead to it becoming commonplace not to have anybody on board except the driver.


Except that the terms of the franchise require them to have a second person on the train. So they may choose to run an occasional service DOO rather than cancel it, but they are certainly not going to plan for it, or for it to be the thin end of the wedge.

[IndustryInsider]

Except that the terms of the franchise require them to have a second person on the train. So they may choose to run an occasional service DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) rather than cancel it, but they are certainly not going to plan for it, or for it to be the thin end of the wedge.

Well, if it's in the terms of the franchise then that's good enough for me.  Sadly not for the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) though!

[Tim]

Do the Strathclyde ticket examiners know how to protect a train?  If not, why not?
 

Because they are DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard))

If that is true and they cannot protect a train then that is wrong.

Are you sure it is correct though?  I would have thought that all on train staff (including buffet staff, revenue protection people, customer hosts, whatever) should have some basic training to enable them to use the PA^▸ (Public Address) system, put on a Hi Viz and evacuate a train without getting their passengers run over, communicate with the signaller, and know how to use safety equipment like detonators and fire extinguishers?

[coachflyer]

Are you sure it is correct though?  I would have thought that all on train staff (including buffet staff, revenue protection people, customer hosts, whatever) should have some basic training to enable them to use the PA^▸ (Public Address) system, put on a Hi Viz and evacuate a train without getting their passengers run over, communicate with the signaller, and know how to use safety equipment like detonators and fire extinguishers?

The only staff that have Personal Track Safety (PTS^▸ (Personal Track Safety)) on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are Drivers, Guards and Station Dispatchers. ALl other on train staff go through basic train evacuation as part of their initial training but that is it.

Back in the days of Thames Trains they put the revenue grades though the PTS course but when First took over this was stopped. Most of the Revenue staff would like to get this back so that they could help out in an emergency  but FGW will not pay for the recurrent training.

[Tim]

Are you sure it is correct though?  I would have thought that all on train staff (including buffet staff, revenue protection people, customer hosts, whatever) should have some basic training to enable them to use the PA^▸ (Public Address) system, put on a Hi Viz and evacuate a train without getting their passengers run over, communicate with the signaller, and know how to use safety equipment like detonators and fire extinguishers?

The only staff that have Personal Track Safety (PTS^▸ (Personal Track Safety)) on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are Drivers, Guards and Station Dispatchers. ALl other on train staff go through basic train evacuation as part of their initial training but that is it.

Back in the days of Thames Trains they put the revenue grades though the PTS course but when First took over this was stopped. Most of the Revenue staff would like to get this back so that they could help out in an emergency  but FGW will not pay for the recurrent training.

Thanks for the info.  This seems to me to be a better example of a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) putting profit above safety than what Scotrail is proposing.

[Oxman]

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Dispatchers do not have PTS^▸ (Personal Track Safety). The only station staff with PTS are likely to be managers who have on call responsibility. Dispatchers are instructed to stay off the track, except in dire emergency.

The reason for this, and for Revenue staff not having PTS, is that it would be used so infrequently that there would be question marks about the competency of these staff. The basic rule is that, unless you practice your competency, you will lose it. For example, safety critical staff who are off sick for, say, four weeks, must have a competency assessment on their return to work before being allowed to do their safety critical task.

Staff that used their PTS training once in a blue moon could be putting themselves and others at risk.

[readytostart]

It's not just a case of knowing how to put track circuit clips and detonators down and evacuating passengers, it's also detailed route knowledge so you know exactly which signaller to call, exactly where you are to help with finding a safe place to evacuate passengers to and which direction you can reasonably expect the next train to be coming from.

[Brucey]

Thanks for the responses - makes absolute sense now.

I've noticed that Southern do DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) on some of their services.  I believe the Electrostars have cameras by the doors which can be viewed by the driver - so the driver can operate the doors at all stations.

[Tim]

The reason for this, and for Revenue staff not having PTS^▸ (Personal Track Safety), is that it would be used so infrequently that there would be question marks about the competency of these staff. The basic rule is that, unless you practice your competency, you will lose it. For example, safety critical staff who are off sick for, say, four weeks, must have a competency assessment on their return to work before being allowed to do their safety critical task.

How does a Guard opening and closing doors keep his competancy in evacuation and train protection up to scratch?

[Brucey]

How does a Guard opening and closing doors keep his competancy in evacuation and train protection up to scratch?

Presumably through regular training and re-training.  Would probably be too expensive to do this with all staff.

[dog box]

Protection and evacuation is covered during regular competance assessments which each guard is required to pass regularly to remain active in the role.
I actually think most passengers would be quite surprised in what information a guard is required to know and retain, with regards to route knowledge, theoretical rules/ traction information as well as retail and ticketing.