Turbo refresh started.

[whole diary]

[IndustryInsider]

In Thames Trains days (possibly left over from BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)), I'm not sure), there were stickers on the opening windows in the 166s (together with the plastic seals) explaining that the coach was air conditioned and that opening the windows would stop the a/c working effectively. They had almost no effect!

There still are.  And they still have almost no effect!

[Mookiemoo]

In Thames Trains days (possibly left over from BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)), I'm not sure), there were stickers on the opening windows in the 166s (together with the plastic seals) explaining that the coach was air conditioned and that opening the windows would stop the a/c working effectively. They had almost no effect!

There still are.  And they still have almost no effect!

Stickers require your average troglodyte to be able to read!

[devon_metro]

The problem is, if a train is very hot and stuffy it's all very well saying "let the aircon do it's job" but it would be very uncomfortable. I wouldn't sit in a sealed car on a hot summers day hoping that the "cold" ventation setting will keep me cool - because it won't !!

[willc]

I don't think the refresh iincludes aircon / air cooling though.

Not for 165s but it does include some attempt to do something to improve the situation on the 166s - hence the set being sent to Doncaster.

If the a/c system was made a sight more effective, resulting in coaches being reasonably cool on hot days, then sticking plastic seals on the handles alongside some bright red stickers with 'emergency ventilation only' in big letters, rather than the grey things used by BR^▸ (British Rail(ways))/Thames/FGW^▸ (First Great Western) with lots of tiny writing, might persuade all but the most determined fresh air freaks to keep their hands off.

The problem is, if a train is very hot and stuffy it's all very well saying "let the aircon do it's job" but it would be very uncomfortable. I wouldn't sit in a sealed car on a hot summers day hoping that the "cold" ventation setting will keep me cool - because it won't !!

If the a/c worked properly, then the train wouldn't get very hot and stuffy in the first place, would it? I have never come across a train fitted with a/c in Britain, or abroad, that has problems like the 166s - occasional breakdowns affecting an odd coach, yes, like coach F on the 17.50 to Worcester tonight, but not an across-the-board issue afflicting an entire fleet that has been allowed to persist for nearly 20 years by a series of operators.

Fingers crossed that Wabtec can find a solution that doesn't drain off vast amounts of power or cost the earth.

[inspector_blakey]

Was it Wabtec who managed to improve the a/c on the 158 fleet back in the days of Wales and West/Wessex? I seem to remember that it was on its last legs for some time but was then largely dealt with - not perfect now by any means, but a good sight better than a few years back when it was unusual to see a Wessex 158 running round with the windows closed in the summer.

[IndustryInsider]

If the a/c worked properly, then the train wouldn't get very hot and stuffy in the first place, would it?

Agree with your comments, Will, though one thing that occured is that with increasing pressure on drivers to switch off engines when the immobilise a train, there are quite a few occasions when passengers board a train, especially at Paddington, when the a/c isn't working and it does take a few minutes after the engines have been switched on for the effect to be felt.  That might possibly cause a few people to ignore the warnings and open the windows on what would otherwise be a perfectly good set, by which time it's too late!

[basset44]

Hi All,

See Air con not only a problem on our trains,


Germans hot and bothered by sizzling trains Germany's reputation for comfortable trains is suffering in the heatwave Germany's high-speed trains may be known by the acronym ICE but stifling heat has sparked a furore over Deutsche Bahn's national rail services.

Crisis talks are opening shortly because air-conditioning breakdowns on trains have prompted the company to pay compensation to angry passengers.

For anyone who got medical help after riding on an overheated train Deutsche Bahn (DB^» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about)) is offering 500 euros (^421) plus a ticket refund as compensation.


Full Story


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10723542

Bob- Blakey Found this about 8 mins ago see have to type quicker

So its not just the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)

[JayMac]

I bet FGW^▸ (First Great Western) would baulk at paying ^421 to any passenger requiring medical attention after suffering heat exhaustion.

[ChrisB]

I bet ANY TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) would baulk at that....

[JayMac]

More public transport a/c issues.... this time from across the pond:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/20/AR2010072005721.html

[willc]

So its not just the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)

Which wasn't what I said. What we have been talking about here and in other threads over the years has been the problems that afflict an entire class of trains, the 166s, and have done for pretty much every summer all their lives, due to an a/c system that isn't really up to the job to start with, compounded by having unlocked emergency ventilation windows, which, when opened, bring about the system's demise.

Germany has been suffering a heatwave, with temperatures in Berlin hitting 38C/100F (and Washington DC^▸ (Direct Current) seems not to have been faring much better), which is around the upper limit of the temperature range the a/c on ICE trains is designed to cope with, not unreasonably in a country with a normally temperate climate. Were temperatures in the UK to get that high then I suspect that many Mk3s, Mk4s and Pendolini would suffer in exactly the same way, indeed, as i noted above, at least one HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) trailer had succumbed only the other day, when temperatures were in the mid-20s Centigrade.

[IndustryInsider]

Slightly better news is that a unit with the new CIS^▸ (Customer Information System) system installed should be imminent, though initially only on the one unit to trial the new system out.

Just to follow up on this, as I've been told the trial will start next week with 165136 (I think) being kitted out with the new equipment this weekend.

[Chris from Nailsea]

As there was a very interesting, but increasingly 'off topic', discussion developing here, I've now split those particular posts off into a new topic, at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=7334

CfN. 

[hornbeam]

On a 165 yesterday morning- a refreshed one...

Could hardly hear the tannoy so not fixed that, and just about made out after a very slow journey there was ' technical issues with the windscreen wipers'. got of the train and noticed what the technical issue was- one had fallen off. Also the floor was filthy and interior panels have started to come away, along with no where to put my morning cuppa now! What a joke, and good to see them falling into the same sate as they were before already. Also noticed there are a lot of rugh running units about along with most leaking air.

[The SprinterMeister]

Was it Wabtec who managed to improve the a/c on the 158 fleet back in the days of Wales and West/Wessex? I seem to remember that it was on its last legs for some time but was then largely dealt with - not perfect now by any means, but a good sight better than a few years back when it was unusual to see a Wessex 158 running round with the windows closed in the summer.

Sort of. The original Provincial Western allocation was 158815 - 158842 & 158863 - 155872. These had EBAC aircon which was rather unsucessfully modified to use Chilled water as the refrigerant medium. None of these units run for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) anymore, having been replaced gradually by a fleet of ex TPex & Virgin (via TPex) 158's that use the earlier and more robust Westinghouse / Transtemp kit. The last BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) Provincial Western 158's 158815-7/855/863-872 left as of December 2007.  Quite a few of the more recently aquired 158's have had Leibherr equipment fitted, which of the available 158 aircon sytems is probably the best of the bunch. I believe 166201 also has Leibherr air conditioning fitted to it as a trial. Not sure how that one is getting on in service though.

I know Wabtec gave the 158 airconditioning a good overhaul during the refresh programme though.