Turbo refresh started.

[whole diary]

[willc]

All the Chiltern 165s were fitted with air conditioning when they were refurbished and very effective it is too.

See page 3 of this thread for what is happening re the 166 air con system. I think I'll scream if one more person here suggests having a howling gale blowing through a coach is a suitable ventilation system. 166s are quite bad enough with one or two windows open thanks, never mind that opening them is usually the kiss of death for the air con when it is actually working.

And on the only refreshed 165 I've been ridden on so far, it was trying to close windows that was the problem. At least three in one half of the coach wouldn't shut, two due to useless latches and the other because the window seal was hanging down from the top of the frame, never mind the patches where the blue paint hadn't stuck and dribbles of sealant or glue on the panelling.

[ChrisB]

It'as air-cooling on the Chiltern 165s.....and boy, do they blow too hard - people are putting jackets ON in this weather.....

Until people understand how aircon actually works, it's pretty useless fitting it on 165s / 166s - as soon as the windows are opened, the aircon tries to condition the world & pretty soon packs up. Unfortunately, aircon plus non-opening windows or no aircon....

[IndustryInsider]

Unfortunately, aircon plus non-opening windows or no aircon....

Or, air-con plus staff only opened windows like on the 158's and 332's (Heathrow Express units).  Another reason for having somebody else on the train other than the driver.

[inspector_blakey]

Could be talking out of my backside but it looks from photos as if the refurbished Chiltern units have completely sealed windows. Is that the case, and if so how come Chiltern can operate DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) trains with sealed windows if FGW^▸ (First Great Western) can't?? Or are there staff-opened windows? Which leads me to the supplementary question: I know Chiltern services are largely (if not exclusively...?) driver-only, but do they all carry RPIs^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context))/ticket examiners/"customer service officers"?

[ChrisB]

Chiltern have sealed windows.

They operate DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) from MYB^▸ (London (Marylebone)) - BAN. Beyond Banbury, there's a guard aboard.

[IndustryInsider]

Could be talking out of my backside but it looks from photos as if the refurbished Chiltern units have completely sealed windows. Is that the case, and if so how come Chiltern can operate DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) trains with sealed windows if FGW^▸ (First Great Western) can't??

Basically, because of the nature of their franchise (i.e. much longer) they could afford the extra investment to replace the old carriage interiors which were practically identical to FGW 165's.  This included replacing all the windows with sealed ones.  The cooling system seems to work OK the majority of the time, but it is occasionally a failure which leads to sweltering conditions and no remedy (as with other fully sealed trains). 

It would be possible when the Class 166's are refurbished by FGW to very cheaply modify the windows that currently open so that they were only able to be opened by staff with a standard 'T' key - if the improved system is better than the old one that would possibly be a good option - though any failures in service on a DOO train would mean it harder to arrange for somebody to open them of course.

[inspector_blakey]

Do despatch staff at main stations (PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)/RDG^‡(resolve)/OXF^» (Oxford - next trains) etc) carry T-keys? If so presumably it's not totally unfeasible that they could hop on board and do the necessary before despatching. And I'm not sure there would need to be any modification other than yanking out the handles: when I've seen a window that's missing one of the handles the socket that's left behind looks like it should be operable with the square end of a T-key.

[willc]

It'as air-cooling on the Chiltern 165s.....and boy, do they blow too hard - people are putting jackets ON in this weather.....

You call it air cooling, but I was going by the Chiltern website, which says air conditioning http://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/about-us/our-train-fleet/

Definitely on the fridge-like side at times, perhaps more so even than in a 180.

The fundamental problem with the 166 system is that it isn't up to the job to start with, thanks to its lash-up and built-to-a-budget nature. It's almost as likely to pack up in the middle of January as July. If it could actually keep the coaches properly cooled (and heated in winter) in the first place then most people probably wouldn't reach for the windows. But I know there will always be someone who just has to open any unlocked window they see - and then sit underneath it, almost oblivious to the gale blowing over everyone else.

Fingers crossed, Wabtec can come up with something as effective and reliable for 166s as the Chiltern set-up, so you could indeed lock the windows, unless there really was an emergency, a la 158. At Oxford any problems on a terminating set would be quickly spotted, as the staff always walk through the trains to check they are empty before sending them into the sidings.

[ChrisB]

You call it air cooling, but I was going by the Chiltern website, which says air conditioning http://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/about-us/our-train-fleet/

So they do....interesting, because they always *talk* about air-cooling in meetings....btw, that page throws up a login script on my PC, which I've drawn to Chiltern's attention.

The fundamental problem with the 166 system is that it isn't up to the job to start with, thanks to its lash-up and built-to-a-budget nature. It's almost as likely to pack up in the middle of January as July. If it could actually keep the coaches properly cooled (and heated in winter) in the first place then most people probably wouldn't reach for the windows. But I know there will always be someone who just has to open any unlocked window they see - and then sit underneath it, almost oblivious to the gale blowing over everyone else.

Hmmm - they did work when new - and it WAS customers regularly opening windows on boarding that then blew the systems up with utmost regularity. Thames Trains gave up repairing them....I was in regular dialogue with them, suggesting that putting explanatory stickers on the windows might help.....

But I agree with the remaining parts of your paragraph....

[johoare]

ChrisB I think I have to disagree with you.. I have commuted on the turbos since 1992 (not sure when the air con arrived though) and on only a handful of occasions have I know the aircon to actually work..

It's interesting to know how opening the windows would break the air con too?

[ChrisB]

by letting the whole world's air in to be cooled?......

[IndustryInsider]

One measure that did help slightly was the green plastic tags that have been applied a few times over the years, as that did make many people think twice before they broke them to open the windows.  Over time they have all long gone, but if re-applied when on depot overnight as required then that would be a very cheap method to help. 

I'm just hoping that FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s solution doesn't go the way of replacing the system with one that works but doing nothing with the window situation, because if that happens any money spend would be completely wasted.

[ChrisB]

I'll pass that on - but don't hold your breath.

I don't think the refresh iincludes aircon / air cooling though.

[Tim]

I'm just hoping that FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s solution doesn't go the way of replacing the system with one that works but doing nothing with the window situation, because if that happens any money spend would be completely wasted.

Completely agree.  Work on airconditioning systems - difficult and expensive
                            Improved window catches/plastic tags/signs - easy and cheap

The rail industry seems to have lost the art of going for the easy wins.  The tiem is right for it to be rediscovered.

[inspector_blakey]

In Thames Trains days (possibly left over from BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)), I'm not sure), there were stickers on the opening windows in the 166s (together with the plastic seals) explaining that the coach was air conditioned and that opening the windows would stop the a/c working effectively. They had almost no effect!

Jo - the a/c will get overloaded and eventually pack up if the windows are left open because it's trying to cool the interior but there's a constant stream of warm air coming in from outside. It's analogous to leaving the fridge door open and expecting it to cool your whole kitchen (or house!) - it won't and will eventually break.