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Southern Stag
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« Reply #195 on: May 18, 2012, 16:32:37 » |
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There is obviously a balance to be struck. In my opinion I think that a list of stations should be announced upon departure from major stations, rather than just the original station.
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Jonathan H
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« Reply #196 on: May 27, 2012, 16:57:05 » |
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Well, the Turbo refresh has now been completed, except for fitment of the new Air Conditioning equipment - that should be completed by January. I will be very interested to see how the new system copes next summer!
166205 forming the 1703 from Reading to Gatwick Airport this afternoon. Almost all the windows open so no change from before. 58105 is the leading carriage - cooling from the ceiling is working but doesn't appear to be counteracting the heating coming from the floor level vents. Cooling working in the other two carriages but doesn't mean the windows are shut. I travelled on 166221 the other morning which had signs of window ties in places but I suspect that passenger action means these don't last long. |
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Btline
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« Reply #197 on: May 27, 2012, 19:24:26 » |
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This is ridiculous. The whole fleet should have been done years ago. Why can't FGW▸ deliver? It's now the start of hot weather and it would be good for commuters if they weren't crammed into sweltering coaches!
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Jonathan H
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« Reply #198 on: May 27, 2012, 22:10:35 » |
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This is ridiculous. The whole fleet should have been done years ago. Why can't FGW▸ deliver? It's now the start of hot weather and it would be good for commuters if they weren't crammed into sweltering coaches!
I think the point is that the fleet has been done. Problem is the same passengers as before continue to open windows and break the air conditioning (which is a bit better than it used to be and now makes quite a racket). |
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ellendune
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« Reply #199 on: May 27, 2012, 22:12:46 » |
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How do passengers break the air conditioning? by opening the windows? Surely not. If that is all it takews to break it then there is no hope.
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d5351
Newbie
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« Reply #200 on: May 27, 2012, 22:32:38 » |
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How do passengers break the air conditioning? by opening the windows? Surely not. If that is all it takews to break it then there is no hope.
Opening windows means the Air Con is trying to cool the whole world............. Not surprisingly, this can lead to it's failure............. |
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Btline
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« Reply #201 on: May 27, 2012, 23:55:33 » |
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If FGW▸ have not replaced the windows then the job has not been "done". On Chiltern, you cannot open the window. In a completely miraculous coincidence, the AC works and the trains are quieter.  |
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Southern Stag
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« Reply #202 on: May 28, 2012, 00:20:23 » |
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But when the air-conditioning fails which is always possible with any system people are going to want to be able to open the windows to get some air in. This is a particular problem on DOO▸ trains like some of those operated by the 166s as highlighted by the failure of a Class 377 in the Thameslink tunnel when the heat became unbearable, see this thread: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=9027.0 |
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broadgage
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« Reply #203 on: May 28, 2012, 08:34:07 » |
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It should be possible, at modest cost, to lock the windows electricly.
They could then be released remotely by the driver in case of AC failure.
Electromagnets for holding doors and windows shut are widely used in buildings, often for windows on fire exit routes.
In case of fire, they release automaticly so as to vent smoke and allow safe escape.
On a train, a similar system could be used in case of A/C failure, either operated by the driver, or even automated. If the A/C has been faulty for more than say 10 minutes, AND the internal temperature exceeds 24 degrees for more than 10 minutes, then the windows open.
The windows would have to be closed manually afterwards, the electromagnet only HOLDS them shut, it can not pull shut an open window.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #204 on: May 28, 2012, 10:24:32 » |
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Interesting idea there from 'broadguage' - perhaps a little too ambitious for a retro-fit though, but why not suggest it to FGW▸ if they win the franchise as they then might be able to justify the cost? The situation is certainly better than before, I'd say that currently around 75% of Class 166 carriages have air-conditioning that is working very well (as opposed to 1% last summer!). However, the problem that we all saw coming (passengers opening the windows and totally negating the efforts of the system) is certainly having an effect. This can partly be mitigated by train crew shutting them again, but if a train is running around on DOO▸ duties, or has a guard/driver who doesn't give a toss (no shortage of those sadly), then you get the situation 'Jonathan H' describes. The only answer is to do something with the windows! Plastic tags like this one simply don't last as you can see:  |
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To view my GWML▸ Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/ |
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #205 on: July 28, 2012, 11:36:56 » |
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The only answer is to do something with the windows!
166206 has had all the hopper windows locked shut. They can be unlocked with a 'T' key in emergencies (like those on Class 158s and others). This is so the manufacturers of the system can demonstrate that their system is working as intended rather than an experiment to see if this is a better way of operating these units, but if anyone feels that this is better than allowing customers to open the windows whether the air-con is working or not might want to drop FGW▸ a line to suggest that the whole fleet is modified as such. This is the time to do it! |
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To view my GWML▸ Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/ |
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Andrew1939 from West Oxon
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« Reply #206 on: July 28, 2012, 19:15:36 » |
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Air conditioning has got itself a bad name over the years. I used to know a professional engineer who said that when air conditioning became common many years ago it was sold to hotels and large office blocks on the basis that it could be self financing because the filters in the system would eliminate the circulation of dirt so that only dirt brought in by people would need to be cleaned, hence lower cleaning costs. However, this engineer said to me, the buildingmanagers saved money by not having air con equipment maintained properly (very often through budgetary constraints) so that filters were not cleaned and changed at apprpropriate intervals and ducting etc. swept. The result was that buildings became infected with what was sometimes called "sick building syndrome" and it was thought that the air circulation system passed around disease and infection. As a result many of the users of these building became "anti" to air conditioning and insisted on opening windows to get what they called "fresh air". A large building I used to work in, many years ago now, came up for refurbishment and it was decided to remove the air conditioning and put in many more opening windows. I believe this culture still exists and that is why some people will always insist on opening a window whether on a train or in a room in a building. I have actually seen on odd occsaions people getting on a train and opening a window before they even sit down. I therefore support the idea of controlling in some way the opening of windows that have properly operating air con.
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johoare
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« Reply #207 on: July 28, 2012, 20:12:22 » |
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Andrew1939 you are quite right.. However most train companies have made sure they have properly working air con so don't have windows that open at all (totally sealed windows in fact)..
FGW▸ have experience of this with their HSTs▸ .. It's outrageous (in my opinion) that the FGW turbos (with air con) have been allowed to be the way they are for so long without it working properly... I've given up on turbos these days mostly, although the times I've had to get one it's still been very warm..
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JayMac
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« Reply #208 on: July 28, 2012, 20:47:45 » |
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FGW▸ have experience of this with their HSTs▸ .. It's outrageous (in my opinion) that the FGW turbos (with air con) have been allowed to be the way they are for so long without it working properly... I've given up on turbos these days mostly, although the times I've had to get one it's still been very warm..
It has to be said that FGW HST aircon is also prone to failure. It can also be affected by open windows - the droplights on the doors. FGW have signs on those doors telling people to close the windows as it saves energy. Poorly fitting and occasionally faulty vestibule sliding doors don't help the aircon either. |
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"A clear conscience laughs at a false accusation."
"Treat everyone the same until you find out they're an idiot."
"Moral indignation is a technique used to endow the idiot with dignity."
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johoare
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« Reply #209 on: July 28, 2012, 22:38:56 » |
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Indeed but HST▸ aircon failing is very very different (and definitely not constant like the turbos seem to be)..
If you travel(led) on the turbos twice a day every day you soon get to see how bad it is.. Which is why I try not to now.. But that does limit my train options rather :-)
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