How NOT to run a railway......

[whole diary]

[jane s]

I would be very interested to find out what possible excuse FGW^▸ (First Great Western) can have for this:

I was on the 7:21 from Tilehurst to Ealing Broadway this morning & we were well on time when suddenly we came to a halt at West Ealing. (Please note that this is NOT a short platform & we were stopped fully alongside it.)

The driver anounced that he was going to have to change ends & reverse back to Hayes & transfer to the fast line because of a "problem" at Acton (he had no more details).

At this point people who were going to Ealing Broadway, including myself, asked him as he passed the window to let us get off the train now at West Ealing but he would not let us because the train "was going to proceed."

WHY??? We were parked, as I have said, fully on the platform at W Ealing for a good 10 minutes. Surely we the fare-paying passengers should have had the right to decide whether we wanted to get off now & walk/bus it to Ealing Broadway or take our chances with the train.

But this story gets much better....! We eventually got back to the bay platform at Hayes, whereupon another train, which would originally have been a long way behind us, stopped at the adjoining platform & picked up passengers - and then left in front of us! (We had already been overtaken by at least 2 other trains).

And then.... we proceeded back to Ealing Broadway on the same relief line we had been on in the first place!

So if we had just stayed parked at West Ealing for a bit longer until they reopened the line, we would still have been better off.

We eventually arrived at Ealing Broadway only a few minutes short of an hour late. If I had got off at West Ealing when I wanted to, I could have walked it in half the time.

If anyone can explain this fiasco away, i would be very interested! (I don't blame the driver BTW^▸ (by the way), he was just doing as he was told.)

[IndustryInsider]

Assuming the whole train was within the platform (or could be shifted a short distance as it was reversing to make that the case), I'm surprised the driver didn't comply with your request and let whoever wanted to get out at West Ealing quickly get out - however this might have caused a bit of confusion with any punters waiting for a London train at West Ealing.  But, it would have seemed a reasonable thing to do.

It is worth remembering that the driver was on their own in this situation.  No guard to assist him/her and an unfamiliar move in returning back to Hayes (wrong line to Hanwell I assume?) to make sure they were happy with - it's easy to get a little stressed out in such a situation, especially with a packed commuter train.

It's not uncommon for a problem to be resolved whilst action to avoid it is taking place though.  In some cases it's better to do something in case the situation becomes harder to resolve than expected - even if sometimes the delay is actually more than if the train had waited at West Ealing.

[jane s]

Yes there were a few people at West Ealing - but plenty of people on the train to tell them not to get on it! (There was no logical reason why they'd have wanted to get on & go back to Hayes, after all!)

We were indeed fully on the platform - I was in the rear carraiage, which was correctly positioned for a 6-car train.

By the time we got to Hanwell we had crossed onto the correct relief line for the direction of travel. We then crossed back to the bay platform after Southall.

Does anyone know what the "problem" at Acton actually was though?

[ChrisB]

We were parked, as I have said, fully on the platform at W Ealing for a good 10 minutes. Surely we the fare-paying passengers should have had the right to decide whether we wanted to get off now & walk/bus it to Ealing Broadway or take our chances with the train.

None whatsoever, at an unsceduled stop....

[jane s]

No more "unscheduled" than the detour!

If the train was going to be standing in the station anyway, surely pragmatism should outweigh the tyranny of the "diagram" and allow the doors to be opened?

The purpose of the railway is to provide a "service" after all, not to conduct what appeared to be an unsuccessful experiment in logistics at our expense.

[ChrisB]

'Elf & Safety' rules, unfortunately....

[jane s]

Don't get me started!

Please explain exactly whose health or safety could possibly be put at risk by opening the doors on a platform in a station?

(I've already said that the train was fully on the platform which was full length).

If one or more doors had been off platform, your point would be valid (even though personally I credit passengers with enough common sense to walk down the train to the appropriate door, I understand that you are not allowed to trust us.)

[devon_metro]

You need paperwork to stop additionally, called a "Special Stop Order (SSO)"

Driver didn't have one, so is protecting his job.

[IndustryInsider]

Please explain exactly whose health or safety could possibly be put at risk by opening the doors on a platform in a station?

It wouldn't be Jane. ChrisB is just plucking that phrase out of thin air - as everyone is prone to do these days.

During an out of course situation unscheduled stops can easily be arranged. Provided it is safe to do so (and the necessary authority sought from the Signaller - verbal authority is just as good as a paper authority, devon_metro!) the driver could have used their initiative and opened the doors to let people out. Indeed I have witnessed it happen at the very same station when Paddington was closed during the bomb attacks and trains were backed up.

West Ealing has a straight platform so although the driver would have been the other end of the platform than usual he could use the 'look back' method of dispatch with no safety compromises at all.

[jane s]

Thanks Industry Insider. Glad that common sense can sometimes prevail even if it didn't in this case.

The driver did in fact spend time at both ends (since he had to change ends in order to reverse the train) so could have let us out first from the proper end.

I do get the impression however that whoever was communicating with the driver wasn't exactly giving him a lot of information, so as I said it wasn't his fault. I'm assuming from what he said in his announcements that he asked them if he could open the doors & they told him no.

Still no answer as to what did happen at Acton.....

[ChrisB]

At this point people who were going to Ealing Broadway, including myself, asked him as he passed the window to let us get off the train now at West Ealing but he would not let us because the train "was going to proceed."

There's your answer. The signaller had given the driver the right to proceed, and he needed to complete the manoevre as quickly as possible, to free up whatever blocks were needed to go wrong side back to Hayes....presumably the signaller was holding trains at signals to achiebve this move?

[IndustryInsider]

At this point people who were going to Ealing Broadway, including myself, asked him as he passed the window to let us get off the train now at West Ealing but he would not let us because the train "was going to proceed."

There's your answer. The signaller had given the driver the right to proceed, and he needed to complete the manoevre as quickly as possible, to free up whatever blocks were needed to go wrong side back to Hayes....presumably the signaller was holding trains at signals to achiebve this move?

I doubt the driver would have been given the right to proceed - that's not the way it works (though he may well have said that to get out of the situation). If the driver was changing ends then he would almost certainly have been instructed to call (via the cab radio) the controlling signaller when he'd changed ends so that the 'move' could have been run through with the driver set up in the correct cab and able to observe the position light signals he'd have to obey. During that change of ends is when the driver could have made a quick announcement and opened the doors, closing them when he'd got to the other end.

One thing that does puzzle me is why the train was in West Ealing platform though? The signal is off the end of the platform, so the train would normally be half-on and half-off the platform if it was brought to a controlled stop at that signal. If that was the case (Jane, are you sure ALL of the train was platformed?) it would have probably been more trouble than it's worth to reposition it, etc.

[ChrisB]

With one up line effectively blocked by this unit, and (presumably) the down relief about to be needed, surely the signaller would have been setting the route while the driver was changing ends?

If so, my point standfs that time was of the essence. And clearance would have been needed from FGW^▸ (First Great Western) control, as well as the signaller.

[IndustryInsider]

With one up line effectively blocked by this unit, and (presumably) the down relief about to be needed, surely the signaller would have been setting the route while the driver was changing ends?

If so, my point standfs that time was of the essence. And clearance would have been needed from FGW^▸ (First Great Western) control, as well as the signaller.

I agree that time was of the essence, and that might be why it didn't happen, or it could have been that the driver never requested it?  Either way, it might have been beneficial to the passengers and added very little time to the delay - but as we weren't there it's difficult to say.  The route probably would have been set by the signaller as the driver changed ends (just like the passengers who wanted to get off would have had the opportunity to do so whilst he was changing ends - assuming the whole train was platformed as I questioned in a previous post) but the driver would have gone nowhere without a full briefing as to the requirements of the move without speaking to the signaller after he'd changed ends. That tallies with Jane's remarks about the driver spending time at both ends of the train. 

The up line was being blocked by whatever the problem on the line ahead was. Clearance would not have been needed from FGW control to open the doors of a train already in a platform in an out-of-course situation, the Signallers authority would have been enough.

[ChrisB]

Clearance would not have been needed from FGW^▸ (First Great Western) control to open the doors of a train already in a platform in an out-of-course situation, the Signallers authority would have been enough.

Outside an emergency situation, I think I beg to differ....I reckon the driver would need to be required to ask / advise.