Refurbished Mk 3 Carriages for Marylebone - Oxford service

[whole diary]

[Chafford1]

Roger Ford reports in February's Modern Railways that Chiltern are introducing refurbished Mk3 coaches (hauled by Class 67 locomotives with DVTs^‡(resolve)) for their new Oxford service with power doors and retention toilets - construction of the prototype carriage is about to start.

I'm a little surprised Chiltern is using these on the Oxford services rather than the longer Birmingham route though.

[Btline]

A change of plan. Originally, the loco + coaches was to go on B'ham runs with the Clubmans doing Oxford.

[Chafford1]

I posted this on Rail UK^▸ (United Kingdom) Forums and peak hour services from 2012 to Birmingham Snow Hill is the plan, according to the resident expert there!

[paul7575]

Roger has just corrected his article with a post in uk.railway.  Definitely 67/Mk3s to Birmingham.

Paul

[IndustryInsider]

Do we know how many sets we are talking about?

[Btline]

What about the Kidderminster trains - the first Kiddy one is a major peak London train, and the others are major peak B'ham trains, and so deserve the high quality service.

Only thing is that Stourbridge may not have the facilities to store them properly = Clubmans.

[ChrisB]

I suspect storage / servicing will be the deciding factor.....

Roger Ford does get so much wrong.....I'm not surprised he posted a correction - but will it appear in print?

[John R]

Errr, I would say that Captain Deltic is one of the most respected and well informed railway journalists, particularly on the technical side. He's admitted it was a slip as he was hurrying to meet the deadline, rather than actually having the wrong information.

 

[ChrisB]

Doesn't change that he gets things wrong, regularly....

Amongst some TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) management, that reputation doesn't hold, that's for sure.

[Chafford1]

.....I'm not surprised he posted a correction - but will it appear in print?

He usually does! The other error was referring to Water Orton rather than Water Eaton. Despite these minor glitches, I look forward to reading RC's articles more than any other journalist.

Mr Ford assures me there'll be more on Evergreen 3 in next month's Modern Railways, including a challenge to readers from Mr Shooter himself!

[willc]

Do we know how many sets we are talking about?

Not too many, I suspect. But if the point of the exercise is to provide peak-hour, high-capacity queue-busters from and back to Birmingham, freeing up a few 168s to provide six-car trains for Oxford peak workings, which would then revert to running as two three-car sets to cover off-peak runs to both Oxford and Birmingham, they may not want that many Mk3s anyway.

If someone wants to try to work out the possibilities, this looks like the place to try http://abrail.co.uk/lhcspassdetail.htm to find the codes for owners and operators see the menu here http://www.abrail.co.uk/

A quick scan suggests there may be about 20 TSOs^▸ (The Stationary Office (now OPSI)) in store that aren't allocated to anyone. DB^» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about) Regio certainly owns several spare DVTs^‡(resolve) and appears to own 10 or so FOs, though one or two of those are shown running with W&S^▸ (Wrexham and Shropshire (Open Access Operator)). With W&S now running four-coach rakes (plus a DVT), not sure there's much scope for getting any coaches from that source.

W&S did say in 2008 that DB Regio owned enough Mk3s for it to operate five four-coach sets if needed, so maybe that makes one short set available for Chiltern plus whatever they can get running from the others DB owns, plus some of those in store - presumably subject to the prototype conversion proving a cost-effective exercise.

[Btline]

What a good idea to do a proper refurb with power doors etc.

I can't wait for this project - all they need to do to make it perfect is install Phil Sayer at Marylebone. (like they have at A Vale P'way)

[willc]

I would reserve judgment on the Mk3s until the concept is proved by the prototype. There have been schemes in the past for converting spare Mk3 sleepers into coaching stock which came to grief, apparently because they would have compromised the body structure.

It may be more straightforward starting with a TSO^▸ (The Stationary Office (now OPSI))/FO body in the first place, so you only need to worry about the door area but even so, I expect they want to be absolutely sure it will work as planned and be cost-effective. Hence the prototype. The Class 442 and Irish Mk3 bodies were purpose-built to incorporate the power doors, plus the associated kit, and satisfy structural integrity requirements.

[ChrisB]

Do we know how many sets we are talking about?

Not too many, I suspect. But if the point of the exercise is to provide peak-hour, high-capacity queue-busters from and back to Birmingham, freeing up a few 168s to provide six-car trains for Oxford peak workings, which would then revert to running as two three-car sets to cover off-peak runs to both Oxford and Birmingham, they may not want that many Mk3s anyway.

There was to be one set coming in last December TT change - but the drop in passengers owing to the recession made this unnecessary. I understood that Chiltern had access to Mk3s in double figures, but I may be wrong.

Re Mr Ford, surely he is aware of the proposed lenghth of the new Oxford platforms - in which case, wouldn't in be rather waste to occupy two coach lengths with vehicles that don't carry passengers? Seems a waste of a platform lengthening to me.....sufficient to realise that I weas spouting rubbish....

[eightf48544]

There was to be one set coming in last December TT change - but the drop in passengers owing to the recession made this unnecessary. I understood that Chiltern had access to Mk3s in double figures, but I may be wrong.

I gather if you look at the ownership of Mark 3  "DB^» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about)" is the key, I gather there are a fair number.

I also gather Roger Ford was wrong about Mark 3s to Oxford. Definitely to Birmingham to attempt to compete with Virgin on time.

Hence dropping of High Wycombe stops on fast Birminghams, which has been mentioned under the Evergreen 3 posts.