"Jobsworth denies Heroes travel"

[whole diary]

[plymothian]

I could work for the Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1242625/Soldiers-returning-Afghanistan-threatened-arrest-ticket-inspector-invalid-warrants.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/active/6967631/Guard-threatened-to-throw-returning-soldiers-off-train.html

Though what does not sit true is the comments about the driver offering them a ride in the cab 

[old original]

Funny old world....

Soldiers doing their job......"Heroes"
Guard doing his job..........."Jobsworth"

 

[ChrisB]

Quite - I thought that too....

[Tim]

Why didn't the guard just take the solidier's details and the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) send him a penalty notice (or whatever it is called) in the post which he could then have forwarded to the MoD.  Wouldn't that have been better then threateneing to throw him off or relying on a member of public to pay his fare?

Looks like the blame lies squarely with the MoD, but perhaps the Guard could have handled it better (although on the otherside, we have absolutely no idea what attitude the soldier adopted to the Guard)

[moonrakerz]

If the Officer (a Captain) travelling with them couldn't sort it out, I don't think I would have much confidence in him if he was leading my patrol in Helmand !!

[Phil]

Looks like the blame lies squarely with the MoD, but perhaps the Guard could have handled it better (although on the otherside, we have absolutely no idea what attitude the soldier adopted to the Guard)

Sorry, but how do you make out "the blame lies squarely with the MOD"?

According to the feature, "They had been due to arrive on a flight from Corfu at RAF^▸ (Royal Air Force) Brize Norton in Oxfordshire, so the warrants for their train travel were made out from Oxford station. But their flight was diverted to East Midlands Airport because of bad weather."

The MOD weren't to know the flights were to be re-routed. Had they issued the soldiers with flexible tickets valid on all UK^▸ (United Kingdom) rail routes just in case, the Daily Fail and indeed the entire nation's media would have soon been on their backs for wasting taxpayers money. Questions would have been asked in the house. Taxpayers would have whinged on internet blogs.

Oh... wait... taxpayers are whinging anyway.

*sigh*

To be fair, the soldiers should have known that the rail warrants they had been issued with were not valid on that particular route, and should NOT have boarded the train knowing they didn't have tickets or, presumably, the means to pay.

What they should have done is what the Captain with them presumably did, which was to approach a ticket office and explain the situation before boarding the train and either (a) exchanged their warrants for tickets which were valid for that particular route, which is unlikely to have been possible (but it's always worth asking, as there may have been off-peak singles available at the same cost for the new route as for a peak-time single on their original route, for example) or (b) bought tickets individually and claimed the cost back from the MOD afterwards. Which is exactly what is supposed to happen, as the MOD spokesperson says.

[Brucey]

Surely it doesn't make any difference whether someone is a soldier or not?  They should still ensure they have a valid ticket for the journey they are making.

If they boarded at a station or two down the line, they could be forgiven.  But this is a completely different route, on a completely different TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s trains with a completely different fare.

EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) have only refunded the money here as they don't want to look bad.  This "jobsworth" was just doing his job and enforcing the law, which also happens to apply to soldiers.

Having a Captain with them, surely he could have stepped in before they boarded the train and arrange with the TOC for payment to be made by the MOD.

[Tim]

Sorry, but how do you make out "the blame lies squarely with the MOD"?

Because after landing at the airport, the MOD presumably directed them to the station and told them to get a train into London.  The MOD should have known that the warants they had issued were invalid and done something about it (issued new warrants or called the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) to explain or given them cash for new tickets, something).

Yes the soliders like anyone else are responsible for having the right ticket before boarding but if I dropped my son off at the station, gave him an invalid ticket and told him to catch teh neext train, would I not bear some responsibility - perhaps not legally, but morally?

[Tim]

Sorry, but how do you make out "the blame lies squarely with the MOD"?

Because after landing at the airport, the MOD presumably directed them to the station and told them to get a train into London.  The MOD should have known that the warants they had issued were invalid and done something about it (issued new warrants or called the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) to explain or given them cash for new tickets, something).

Yes the soliders like anyone else are responsible for having the right ticket before boarding but if I dropped my son off at the station, gave him an invalid ticket and told him to catch the next train, would I not bear some responsibility - perhaps not legally, but morally?

The MOD is was responsible for transporting this serviceman.  they sub-contracted to the railway, but the responsiblity was still theirs.

Still don't understand why details could not have been taken and it sorted out later?

[devon_metro]

Funny old world....

Soldiers doing their job......"Heroes"
Guard doing his job..........."Jobsworth"

 

I was under the impression that Guards were to exercise discretion, this clearly not the case here. It wouldn't have been difficult to issue an un paid fare notice and the matter dealt with further by the MOD.

Certainly threatening to throw them off the train is wrong. However, at the same time i'm sure the Daily Mail has obscured the truth, there is the possibility that they refused to pay the full open single in which case there is every possibility being removed from the train was the correct choice.

[readytostart]

If your holiday flight is diverted due to poor weather you expect your carrier to provide transportation back to your original airport, if it is more convenient for you to get home from where you are, then it is at your own expense.
The MOD should have arranged for these guys to get to oxford station, or to a more convenient point from which their tickets would be valid, if they weren't to be supplied with new warrants.

[Btline]

if it is more convenient for you to get home from where you are, then it is at your own expense.

Surely that'd be rare, not many people can magic their car from one airport car park to another!

[old original]

Done some research....

Perhaps ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) should remind the MOD that they don't have to write an originating point on the warrant just a Air Flight number. Then it doesn't matter which airfield they land at.

[Tim]

Could there be an element of staff only seeing MOD warrents on certain routes?  maybe the EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) guard had not seen one before and formed the opinion that there was something fishy about it (a deliberate attempt to aviod a fare) rather than a genuine mistake more properly dealt with in the circumstances by an unpaid fare notice. 

I assume that an unpaid fare notice doesn't earn any commission whereas selling ^150 of new fares is worth about ^14 to the Guard?

[Ollie]

The problem with the warrant is as pointed out, whoever takes the warrant, can only issue a ticket for what is put on it. Otherwise whichever company that issued the warrant (this case the MOD) can turn round and say, no that isn't what the warrant was for, and refuse payment.

It's as others have stated, if it wasn't for the fact these people were soldiers nobody would kick up a fuss about the fact they were told buy tickets or get off.