Level crossing incidents at Sandy Lane and Yarnton Lane - merged posts

[whole diary]

[grandsire]

Michael Crick (Channel 4 news) has just put this on twitter

Michael Crick ‏@MichaelLCrick

Rail source tells me "technical problems for years" at Yarnton, Oxon level-crossing where man killed this pm. "I knew this would happen."

Network Rail & RAIB^▸ (Rail Accident Investigation Branch) will investigate but I really hope it is not true.

The Michael Crick article seems to say the "fault" is that the barriers stay down too long i.e preventing road vehicles from moving forward.  If so then this is if anything a "fail safe".



Edit note: Quote marks fixed. CfN.

[SandTEngineer]

The Michael Crick article seems to say the "fault" is that the barriers stay down too long i.e preventing road vehicles from moving forward.  If so then this is if anything a "fail safe".

What absolute tosh.  For an AHBC^▸ (Automatic Half Barrier Crossing) the road closure time is a minimum of 29 seconds and worse case (for two trains with the first striking out just as the second strikes in is 29+10+29=68 seconds).  It may be slightly longer if the trains are not running at linespeed but the normal calculations are based upon 80% of trains arriving within the 29 seconds.  I don't think that the train passing time is likely to add much to that (depends on train length) so say worse case is crossing closed for 90 seconds.

Edit to add some extra comments: My professional experience shows that most AHBC level crossings are only closed to road traffic for around 45 seconds at the most at any one time (accepted that the number of closures may follow each other quite closely, a minimum of 10 seconds apart).  As we have debated many times before on this forum, level crossings are safe if used properly (would you cross a red light at a road junction??).

Despite what I have said here my sympathy still goes out to the family who lost a dear loved one (and to the train driver to whom it must have been quite a shock).

[Andy W]

f.y.i.

http://blogs.channel4.com/michael-crick-on-politics/technical-problems-for-years-at-oxfordshire-level-crossing-where-man-died/2084

Not really sure this is a technical problem appears to be inappropriate equipment.

[IndustryInsider]

What absolute tosh.  For an AHBC^▸ (Automatic Half Barrier Crossing) the road closure time is a minimum of 29 seconds and worse case (for two trains with the first striking out just as the second strikes in is 29+10+29=68 seconds).  It may be slightly longer if the trains are not running at linespeed but the normal calculations are based upon 80% of trains arriving within the 29 seconds.  I don't think that the train passing time is likely to add much to that (depends on train length) so say worse case is crossing closed for 90 seconds.

Indeed, and much quicker than at CCTV^▸ (Closed Circuit Tele Vision) or locally controlled full barrier crossings where several minutes is often the norm.

[TonyK]

Not really sure this is a technical problem appears to be inappropriate equipment.

Or inappropriate use of appropriate equipment. We will only know when the report into the accident is published.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Indeed: thanks for your restrained comments, everyone, in such sad circumstances.

I've moved and merged a couple of topics here, as the discussion was a duplication - purely in the interests of continuity and completeness, as always.

Hope this clarifies, CfN. 

[mjones]

Michael Crick (Channel 4 news) has just put this on twitter

Michael Crick ‏@MichaelLCrick

Rail source tells me "technical problems for years" at Yarnton, Oxon level-crossing where man killed this pm. "I knew this would happen."

Network Rail & RAIB^▸ (Rail Accident Investigation Branch) will investigate but I really hope it is not true.

The Michael Crick article seems to say the "fault" is that the barriers stay down too long i.e preventing road vehicles from moving forward.  If so then this is if anything a "fail safe".

Yes, the implication of the blog seemed to be that the 'fault' means traffic is being delayed unnecessarily, thereby presumably encouraging people to take risks to avoid delay. Which is a rather strange interpretation of the 'cause' of an accident...

[thetrout]

(would you cross a red light at a road junction??).

Whilst it might not be the right thread to raise these comments as they may seem insenstive, for which I apologise in advance.

But it sometimes that very point comes down to person driving the vehicle. In some cases a pedestrian crossing the road/railway. (appreciated we don't know the full circumstances) In some cases even both and a prime example of that happened to me yesterday, When half way across a Pedestrian Crossing showing a Green Man. (It definitely was as there were several witnesses who confirmed that) Admittedly I had committed the awful sin of walking and cellphone talking. Whilst I was certainly aware of my surroundings, I was distracted by the phone call. The traffic to the right of me had stopped and I was half way across when a Young Female Driver (I'd say late teens and no derogatory comments r.e. female drivers implied) approaching from the left side was chatting to her friend in the passenger seat. I immediately became aware of this and so did she. Sadly, it was after she'd run the red light which resulted in me becoming a temporary Honda Hood Ornament Fortunately she was doing no more than 15 mph.

On the relation to that subject I was talking to a BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) Officer about Level Crossings after his colleague didn't believe the story about the Bus Driver getting stuck on the crossing. He said to me one of the worst things you can say is: "I didn't see the lights, as that's driving without due care and attention"

Whilst I am certainly not implying or speculating that lack of attention was the case here. I was trying to sum up a general point of those lights and barriers are there for a reason. Also don't cross the road or railway whilst on a cellphone!

[BerkshireBugsy]

Whilst it might not be the right thread to raise these comments as they may seem insenstive, for which I apologise in advance.

I agree with your sentiment - this is why I posted my original in "Frequent Posters" but understand the decision to move it elsewhere

[Chris from Nailsea]

Thanks, BerkshireBugsy.

It is a very difficult decision, working out where best on this forum to place any discussion about an incident in which someone has died.

However, on balance, and provided our members post appropriately, I do think it's better to conduct any discussion in the public area of this forum - where our hopefully constructive comments and suggestions can reach a wider audience.

Chris. 

[Oxman]

BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) Oxford reported tonight that NR^» (Network Rail - home page) has stated that the crossing was working correctly at the time of the accident.

[BerkshireBugsy]

Thanks, BerkshireBugsy.

It is a very difficult decision, working out where best on this forum to place any discussion about an incident in which someone has died.

However, on balance, and provided our members post appropriately, I do think it's better to conduct any discussion in the public area of this forum - where our hopefully constructive comments and suggestions can reach a wider audience.

Chris. 

No problem CfN - I certainly understand. I guess maybe I am over sensitive because I live fairly near ufton nervett and go past it every day on the train.

[Andy W]

http://www.btp.police.uk/latest_news/car_struck_by_train_yarnton.asp

Fyi

[thetrout]

http://www.btp.police.uk/latest_news/car_struck_by_train_yarnton.asp

Fyi

Link gives me a 404 error (Page not found)

* Edit to add * Correct link is here: http://www.btp.police.uk/latest_news/car_struck_by_train_yarnton.aspx

[Andy W]

Hi The Trout .......... thanks for correcting my post and adding an x