Splitting Tickets

[whole diary]

[plymothian]

How about Plymouth - Cheltenham same day return.  Straight through was ^55+ odd

Plymouth - EXD^» (Exeter St Davids - next trains) - Taunton - BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) - Cheltenham Spa splits got it down to ^20 all on CDRs^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day')).
That took time, using 4 different TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) websites to check the various legs, but booked all through FGW^▸ (First Great Western) and picked all up at PLY^» (Plymouth - next trains) TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine), though I had 4 booking refs and had to insert my card 4 times.

[Brucey]

That took time, using 4 different TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) websites to check the various legs, but booked all through FGW^▸ (First Great Western) and picked all up at PLY^» (Plymouth - next trains) TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine), though I had 4 booking refs and had to insert my card 4 times.

A good spot!  If you use the NFM^▸ (National Fares Manual), you can very quickly search for all the different splits (obviously this costs ^10...).  Also, the East Coast website gives one reference number for all your tickets that are bought together - which The Train Line powered sites don't normally do.

[Zoe]

Plymouth - EXD^» (Exeter St Davids - next trains) - Taunton - BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) - Cheltenham Spa splits got it down to ^20 all on CDRs^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day'))..

You don't save anything splitting at Exeter:

PLY^» (Plymouth - next trains) - EXD CDR:  ^7.50
EXD - TAU^» (Taunton - next trains) CDR:  ^9.40
Total:  16.90

PLY - TAU CDR:  15.60

[Chris from Nailsea]

If you use the NFM^▸ (National Fares Manual), you can very quickly search for all the different splits (obviously this costs ^10...).

Not necessarily: many of you will be able to see our 'frequent posters' area for details. 

[JayMac]

If you use the NFM^▸ (National Fares Manual), you can very quickly search for all the different splits (obviously this costs ^10...).

Not necessarily: many of you will be able to see our 'frequent posters' area for details. 

Teehee <cough> 

[D]

UK^▸ (United Kingdom) rail journey pricing is a morass of insanity.

(Off-topic/ Non-FGW^▸ (First Great Western)) A friend recently explained to me how to get advance purchase tickets from Ludlow to Mallaig and back for ^50 or so. The 2nd class return is ^163 which would have been a non-starter, ruling out making the journey.

Why cannot we have a renationalised railway and a website to book journeys & fill the trains as functional and transparent as say Easyjet's website? (the price of a seat depends sensitively on demand for that day and time of day, a 2000 km journey may vary from ^40 to ^150). They achieve 85% load factor. If the railways could do this they would save fuel as they achieve nowhere near 85% load factor.

With modern ICT, programming this to work for a single integrated railway system would be a relative piece of cake.

[ChrisB]

A renationalised railweay is going to cost more to run, and this country doesn't exactly have spare funds at this moment in time....

How can you compare loading on airlines (single a->b trip) with trains which make multiple stops??? At what point do you measure a train's loading for comparison....

[JayMac]

Take a look at some morning commuter trains, 150+% load factor (if we count pax versus seats). Even off-peak local services can regularly load beyond 100% at some points on the journey. Try a trip between Southampton and Bristol on a Sunday afternoon.

I'll agree that UK^▸ (United Kingdom) fares are a 'morass of insanity' though.

[Mookiemoo]

What gets me is the cost of walk on first fairs in the middle of the day and the fact there are no super off peak

Recently I've often been pootling about during the day and I swear half the first carriages are carting hot air - when standard is pretty busy.

Why don't they have a super off peak for first on routes where they can't fill the carriages.  The only option is the full walk on which most (nor will I) pay

[ChrisB]

They do - they're called First Advance....done that way to *ensure* that you only travel on off-peak trains. They are purchasable up to 1800 the evening before you want to travel, and very rarely sell-out of the allocation.

[grahame]

What gets me is the cost of walk on first fairs in the middle of the day and the fact there are no super off peak

They do - they're called First Advance....done that way to *ensure* that you only travel on off-peak trains. They are purchasable up to 1800 the evening before you want to travel, and very rarely sell-out of the allocation.

Chris - I think you're offering FallenAngel a product that doesn't meet her needs - she asked about walkon fares, but you've offerred an advanced ticket.

There are a number of travellers - I'm one too - who travel off peak when we can, but we can't be sure ahead of time of the exact timing.   A flight arrival into Gatwick, a job completed in the evening in London and wanting to catch the next train home - a such times we can't be sure exactly which train we'll be catching, so a specific-train ticket won't work.   And the gap, 2nd to 1st, is so huge that few people use the first.

[Mookiemoo]

Maybe an advance ticket that specifies can only be used between 10am and 4pm maybe?

Even if its restricted to a certain day?

That would be what is needed

[Mookiemoo]

Example

Last Thursday my VPN token went down....I knew I had to get to the office to get it fixed.  It was about midday.

I got the 2 something from ludlow to newport and then the 3:39 - I think - from newport to reading.  The first class carriages on the train were empty.  Standard was full.  I could not have bought an advance I did not know the journey had to be made.

Yet the cost was extortionate compared to the standard fare

Friday - I got the 13:41 from Reading to Newport.  Again, and empty train in first but busy in standard.  i could not book advance as I had no idea how long he replacement token would take.

I can understand the price differential in the peak but why when they are carting around empty air, have that differential in the middle of the afternoon

[brompton rail]

Ah, but there are some Off Peak First Class Fares.
Example - Bristol TM^‡(resolve) to Paddington ^264 Anytime First Return; ^154 First Class Off Peak return = earliest dept. from TM is 08.41 and latest return from Padd is 16.30 (and again 18.45 and later.

Cross Country also do Off Peak at just over half of Anytime Return, though the service offered is rubbish, and on some trains you might fight for a seat.

[inspector_blakey]

Why cannot we have a renationalised railway

Oh please, not this old chestnut again!   Let's bear in mind that most (although admittedly not all) of this so-called "morass of insanity" was inherited direct from BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) with many different ticket types, differing time restrictions, different rates per mile depending on whether the journey was priced by Intercity, Network Southeast or Regional Railways etc etc etc. Although actually now we've largely moved away from advance tickets with various different names promoted by different TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) (although by definition they will generally be valid only for use on a particular operator) we're not actually that far away from where BR left off again.

I know there are a lot of (misled...?) idealists out there who seem to believe that all the problems the current railway has would be solved overnight by renationalization, but I really don't agree with that argument at all. No doubt many of them are from the "grass is always greener on the other side" posse who complained incessantly about what a mess BR was when it was in existence.

From a quick look in the fares manual, D, all you're quoting here is the difference between the off-peak return for the journey and advance tickets (GBP 163 vice GBP 50ish depending on the combination that's available). Exactly the same situation would have existed under BR, with Saver, Supersaver SuperAdvance and Apex^▸ (Advanced Purchase Excursion (fare)) tickets available for that journey. The GBP163 fare has no time real time restrictions (any train after 0415) and for a journey of that length, for a fully flexible ticket with no advance booking requirement I would say it represents fairly good value. To be able to make that journey for GBP 50 is an incredible bargain. Let's face it, in the real world, you're not going to be able to travel from Wick to Penzance at the drop of a hat for GBP 20 so to expect to be able to travel very long distances for almost no money isn't realistic.