HST-Dft proposes life extension!

[whole diary]

[woody]

According to the latest "Modern Rail" magazine the venerable HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) could well stay in service for more than half a century if further life extension work,which the Dft has been discussing with train owners and engineering companies gets the go ahead.
 With electrification of the "Berks and Hants" still only an aspiration and the industry now being asked by the Dft to provide proposals for IC125 life -extension for a further 20 years or so the HSTS are likely to be seen in the South-West for many years to come.
 Thoughts!

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

i dont think its a bad thing? most people on this forum would prefer a hst to a modern alternative...even if they do have to open the door! besides they wouldnt be shipped outa the country for works! keeping jobs in the uk has got to be a good thing

[Timmer]

Bring it on! Until someone comes up with a IC^▸ (Inter City) train that is better than the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) then I will be happy to see them go on and on and on. If it ain't broke keep em going!

[devon_metro]

Whilst the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) is a good train, a well built modern train is miles ahead, we need to look to Europe and the Far East for inspiration, a train similar to the 395s would be good. The HSTs are rough riding, potentially very draughty. It's about time we had a decent replacement!

[Chris from Nailsea]

Hmm.

The problem, I suspect, is that having used ^850 billion of taxpayers money, just keeping a few banks afloat, there is perhaps little left over to fund such improvements to our railways?

[Btline]

Ok, the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) are good. But they DO need replacing.

We need to design and build a good quality, reliable and versatile new train. None of these wacky super-dooper trains from China or Japan, full of gismos which will make the train break down whenever Windows Vista decides to crash.

No, a new BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) Mark 5 carriage, building on the Mk3 and 4. Either with underfloor electric motors, or with a loco (diesel or electric or both). Capable of 155 mph and tilting. With 23 metre carriages, capable of going anywhere on the IC^▸ (Inter City) network, and rakes up to 12 cars, a guard's van etc. etc.

[gwr2006]

I think we all knew the cash crisis was going to come and stifle the railways sooner rather than later. I suspect we will see things slowing down with some of the recently announced projects and some may be deferred indefinately, including electrification of the Great Western Main Line and procurement of the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.).

If we are to retain HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) for a few more years (which may not be a bad thing as they're still going strong after 40 years!) what do they need to do to them to make them acceptable.  I'll start with a few ideas but what do the rest of you think should be done:?

• Retention toilets (health regulations must mean the end to flush toilets that deposit all manner of nasties on the track and in station platforms)
• Automatic doors (if they can retrofit them to a MkIII coach then the HST trailers must be next)
• A modern PIS^▸ (Passenger Information System) system inside every coach
• Interior carriage doors that open and close smoothly to reduce noise inside the passenger saloon
  

[Chris from Nailsea]

- Reduced volume on the public address system in quiet carriages.

- Buffet cars.

 

[thetrout]

Definately WiFi and Restaurants for Long Distance IC^▸ (Inter City) Travel...

A Visual & Audio PIS^▸ (Passenger Information System) System, with Exterior Destination Display Boards

No offensive Voyager like smells

[RailCornwall]

Disagree, this is simply wrong, the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) is already compared to European Stock on Inter City routes 10 years if not more outdated. This'll do nothing to bring people to a modern railway system.

The Voyager and even the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) are not ideal replacements as they do nothing to add to comfort of the passenger.

[woody]

Could the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) power cars be uprated to give better excelleration.The MTU^▸ (Motor Traction Unit) series 4000 diesel engine now installed in FGW^▸ (First Great Western) power cars is de-rated  to 2,250bhp from its full rating of 3,500bhp because of the power cars electrical limitations(ie traction motors,alternator etc). Would it be possible to cost effectively re-engineeer the HST power cars electrical systems in order to make better use of the MTUs engines available horsepower to improve performance and therefore journey times on non electrified parts of the FGW network given that journey times have hardly changed since the first HST power cars entered service 33 years ago a situation that could be perpetuated beyond 50 years without power car uprating.You can imagine what the media would make of that.

[dog box]

Angel proposed  life extention work for HST^▸ (High Speed Train) trailer cars when the mtu programme was in develpment stage , this included retention tanks, plug doors. etc. and more recently delta rail proposed similar.
As for the power cars re engineering of generator, traction motor, and control cubicles are possible, so therefore life extention of the HST is possible and should go ahead.
Its far better to do this than plough on with the loony IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) super express  which is quite frankly goinging to be a very expensive white elephant.
The way forward is to re engineer the MK3 Trailer cars to a modern specification and then transfer this technology to new build MK5 Coaches.
Build a few DVT^‡(resolve) Coaches and then get a modern diesel loco { TRAXX ?] as motive power for non electrified areas replacing the diesel for an electric for under the wires

[eightf48544]

Couldn't agree with you more 'dog box'; bring on the locos and DVTs^‡(resolve).

The Mark 3 body shell has proved almost industructable at both Southall and Ladbroke Grove. As dog box says would be reasonably cheap to refurbish the bodies to make modern loco hauled coaches complete with retention tanks, powered plug doors and possibly new bogies.

Loco haulage gives you the flexibility to have different length sets plus through working with loco changes at the end of the wires.

You could then scrap the dual mode IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) which as Roger Ford says may get to Aberdeen although not very fast from Edinburgh on diesel, plus it would have to use it's diesel engine to keep time on the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line). The worst of both worlds.

What a tribute to the orginal designers of the Mark 3. Lets hope the same people design the Mark 5 and it doesn't turn out to have another 737 interior.

[matt473]

One thins springs o mind when I saw this which is "If it isn't broken, then why fix it?" The hst is a relaible bit of kit as it is simple compared to modern trains as there are few computers that cause problems or over-complicated systems. A new or re-engineered mark 3 coach with the powercars can be more than adequate in the near future as they can be used whilst electrification is being carried out and once it is completed the hst's could then be cascaded instead of retired thanks to the re-engineering. Of course this all depends on a thorough overhaul and not a job carried out on the cheap

[IndustryInsider]

Are there any hints as to what effect this would have on the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) program?

The Mark 3 body shell has proved almost industructable at both Southall and Ladbroke Grove.

But didn't one of the carriages fold in half during the Upton Nervett crash? I don't think that a Mk3 coach would have stood up anywhere near as well as the Pendolino involved in the more recent crash at Grayrigg and several modern inventions (crumple zones, carriage override protection, etc.) would be impossible to retro-fit to Mk3's. Without wishing to sound too melodramatic, a life extension could well end up costing lives.