Oyster Cards for Bristol - an ongoing issue, with no real progress so far?

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

There are operator specific smart tickets in Bristol on both First and Wessex services. Not pay as you go though. You can only load weekly or longer season tickets. First also offer season tickets of various flavours via smartphone apps.

[Bmblbzzz]

I rarely travel by bus now, mostly because I've no need but partly because of the difficulty of knowing which bus to get to reach my destination and that I'm not certain how much it will cost. Going back several years though and I used the bus almost every day ^ but then I was living in a large city in continental Europe (population about 2-2.5 million) and had a season ticket. This meant I didn't need to think about the cost ^ effectively there wasn't any ^ nor the ticket. This wasn't any sort of smart card, it was just a printed ticket but valid for all services in the city for a certain length of time; you could get them for periods from one day up to six months. Something like that would be good.

Surely Bristol has got that sort of ticket already?

Yes, though at a rather less attractive price, but still I should think good value for frequent bus users. I forgot to mention the tickets there could be used on buses and trams, and IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) metro too ^ though not suburban rail.

[eightf48544]

Bmblbzzz points out that in Europe in most big cities you can buy runabout cards from 1 day to several months.

Of course they have a major problem as they consider public transport to be a public service so therefore have a similar (usually zonal) fare structure for all local transport, buses, trams, U Bahn S Bahn and even ferries.

This stupid notion runs completely counter to our philosphy that all forms of public transport must compete with themselves and all other forms.

But hang on. Haven't I heard that's there somewhere in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) where there is an integrated public transport system covering all forms of local transport and using a smart card?

[didcotdean]

In Oxford the main operators have interchangeable arrangements with their smart cards, which are either straightforward period type (1 day, 1 week etc) or 5 days in 6 months, within the 'Oxford Smartzone'. They do both though undercut these though with their similar or identical products tied just to their own services.

[Worcester_Passenger]

I may be missing something here, but doesn't the 'Freedom Travelpass' give you "unlimited travel on most bus and all rail services in Bristol, Bath & North East Somerset, North Somerset and South Gloucestershire. With just one ticket." (http://www.firstgroup.com/bristol-bath-and-west/tickets/ticket-types/freedom-travelpass.

[eightf48544]

"unlimited travel on most bus and all rail services in Bristol, Bath & North East Somerset, North Somerset and South Gloucestershire"

Most bus but not all!

[Andrew1939 from West Oxon]

Should the title of this thread be changed? It is was made in 2009, some 6 years ago and little has changed since to make the existing smart cards anything like "Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services)" cards usable on both bus, tram and rail in London for a wide range of alternative paper/card tickets.

[Worcester_Passenger]

"unlimited travel on most bus and all rail services in Bristol, Bath & North East Somerset, North Somerset and South Gloucestershire"

Most bus but not all!

Pardon my ignorance - which ones are excluded?

[Chris from Nailsea]

Should the title of this thread be changed? It is was made in 2009, some 6 years ago and little has changed since to make the existing smart cards anything like "Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services)" cards usable on both bus, tram and rail in London for a wide range of alternative paper/card tickets.

A fair (fare?) comment, Andrew. 

I've therefore changed the topic heading to more accurately reflect the snail's pace at which this is actually happening. 

[Chris from Nailsea]

An update, from the Western Daily Press:

'Oyster card' system to come to Bristol

An 'Oyster card' system, like the one used in London, is set to be coming to Bristol.

First Bristol has today announced plans to make improvements to its ticketing in and around Bristol over the next two years.

It includes a new Smart Pass, which means people can go cashless when using public transport in the city.

Starting in spring next year, a joint bus and rail smartcard scheme will be launched.

In the first instance, it will offer weekly ticketing options, while also introducing contactless credit card payments on certain services.

By 2018, those using the bus or train can use their contactless credit or debit card, while accessing real-time information via an app. The app will include rail and bus time tables and tickets.

The idea is that the system replaces cash as a means of payment by 2020.

Last year, the bus company carried 54 million passengers in the West of England, a 20 per cent increase from two years ago.

Around 175,000 people used m-tickets on their mobile phones in the last three months, a 123 per cent increase on the previous three months.

James Freeman, managing director of First Bristol said: "The smart revolution in transport ticketing is definitely rolling into town. This year will see further developments in preparation for taking major steps forward in 2017. The aim is to provide people with a really simple, easy and cost-effective way of paying for their travel and to speed up boarding times. We know these are currently very slow in the West of England and a cause of some real frustration."

The use of mTicketing has been advancing rapidly in Bristol. This summer will see the introduction of new products, including a 10-trip ticket for shorter journeys as well as a five-trip ticket. The aim is to see boarding times cut, in a bid to make sure buses get to their locations on time.

Bristol Mayor George Ferguson said: "I'm delighted with this development, building on my ambition to introduce a 'Bristol Smart Pass'. I have been determined to implement the next generation of smart ticketing across Bristol to enable vastly improved movement and access by public transport. Technology has moved at such a pace over the past three years, with the vast majority of us now using smartphones as an integral part of our day to day lives."

Purely as an aside, Bristol Mayor George Ferguson is seeking re-election on 5 May 2016. 

[Chris from Nailsea]

Another 'update', this time from the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Why doesn't Bristol have an Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) card?

On 4 May 2017, voters in some parts of the West of England will choose their first elected mayor. Readers have asked how the new appointment will affect transport in the region and why it does not yet have a travel pass similar to an Oyster card.

Whoever is elected will lead a combined authority of representatives from each of the existing unitary authorities - Bristol, North East Somerset Council and South Gloucestershire and Bath - as part of a devolution deal which will take decision-making from Westminster.

It will give the mayor control over important issues, including how to tackle Bristol's transport problems and make daily commutes quicker, cheaper and greener.

However, while most candidates support introducing a simplified ticketing scheme, the issue is complicated.

Services in Bristol were deregulated 30 years ago and the region does not have an integrated transport authority.

It means the city is now serviced by various different transport providers, unlike in London, where travel decisions fall to mayor Sadiq Khan and Transport for London.

At present, bus passengers in Bristol can use the Avonrider, which allows travel on all buses regardless of operator, with an option to add rail travel.

First Bus has been trialling contactless payments on the Bristol Park and Ride, while Great Western Railway is launching a pilot of its first smartcard service on the Severn Beach line.

However a joined-up pass with a cap on daily travel is still some way off.

The Campaign for Better Transport said the mayoral candidates need to feel the heat on transport from voters.


The Mayor of the West of England candidates, from top left: Stephen Williams (Lib Dem), Lesley Ann Mansell (Lab), John Christopher Savage (Independent), Darren Edward Hall (Green), Aaron Warren Foot (UKIP), Tim Bowles (Con)


Lianna Etkind, from the group, said: "This [election] offers mayors and local authorities the chance to plan whole transport networks rather than the situation which we have at the moment where there's a route-by-route approach and so many decisions are out of the hands of the local authority. That might mean getting a smartcard so that passengers could use the same ticket on local rail services and on all the different bus companies."

In London, commuters can top up their Oyster cards and use credit cards and phones to pay for journeys at turnstiles, allowing seamless travel.

Providers in Bristol are hopeful they are moving closer to a similar system.

First Bus has been promising an Oyster card system for almost a decade - with the BBC first writing about the possibility in March 2008.

Despite the project being a long time in the making, the firm said an electronic system is "closer than it has ever been" and hopes to roll it out to the rest of its services later in the year.

A spokesman added: "The next task will be to create a contactless system that allows the travel day to be capped as in London."

A GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) spokesman said: "Following the results of the pilot, there's the potential to extend to our bus services as well as rolling it out to other rail services in the area but we would need to make sure all the ticket barriers and associated stations had the relevant technology."

Ms Etkind said there was "a long way to go" but there were "many reasons to be hopeful".

She added: "This could make a huge difference to people's daily experience - how they travel to work, education or to visit friends and family."

[simonw]

As one of the few cities where the same company controls local buses and trains, and consequently some of the highest rail and bus fairs in the country, you'd think that First would have offered a simple payment system for buses and trains, but alas no.

So, which one of these potential candidates will be most likely to deliver a fair transport system, with a single capped daily charge for local travel.

To give an example of my options

- single, home to BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains) , £3, 15 minutes by bus
- single, home to BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) , £3 60-150 minutes by bus
- dayrider, unlimted bus travel £4
- single from BPW-BTM, £3.80, 15 minutes
- return from BPW-BTM, £4.60


What is the chance of a daily ticket for all bus/local train travel and what is the likely cost?

[chrisr_75]

Slightly off topic, but that's even more expensive (double in fact) than TfL^» (Transport for London - about) for a single bus journey!! 

[John R]

As one of the few cities where the same company controls local buses and trains, and consequently some of the highest rail and bus fairs in the country, you'd think that First would have offered a simple payment system for buses and trains, but alas no.

So, which one of these potential candidates will be most likely to deliver a fair transport system, with a single capped daily charge for local travel.

To give an example of my options

- single, home to BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains) , £3, 15 minutes by bus
- single, home to BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) , £3 60-150 minutes by bus
- dayrider, unlimted bus travel £4
- single from BPW-BTM, £3.80, 15 minutes
- return from BPW-BTM, £3.60


What is the chance of a daily ticket for all bus/local train travel and what is the likely cost?

Within the city it actually has some of the cheapest rail fares in the country per mile.

[simonw]

I did mention a fare transport system ...

I know some routes are very cheap, but it would be nice if an Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) card, or even a contactless debit card could be used, capped to a daily max for all buses/trains within a set area.

The fact that First could not deliver this is amazing. The technology exists in many cities around the world, and I sure it would be straightforward for for First to deploy, unless the issue is not First but NR^» (Network Rail - home page) and DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) not allowing it with Bristol area because no Transport Authority exists.