Cross Country Destruction of service

[whole diary]

[readytostart]

I haven't seen a double voyager for a few years, do you still get them? I've been on a fair few 4-car sets that had enough passengers for two....
[/quote]

Not too sure where you live Bemmy but there are platform restrictions for Voyagers in the West Country, max of eight vehicles in public use West of Exeter and a max of seven in public use West of Plymouth, hence the lack of double sets in the far West. I believe there are services that double up at Bristol, the PLY^» (Plymouth - next trains)-DEE springs to mind.
Dubious about double sets in Bournemouth, even with the service being halved to two hourly at the moment due to the engineering at Southampton. The 1300 BMH-MAN on Sunday just gone was a four car if I remember rightly. Not wanting to strain my mind too much at this time of night but I'd hope that any sets released due to the Soton tunnel works were used as strengthening elsewhere.
As for HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) at Bournemouth there'd need to be some serious remarshalling of the sets to get them South of Reading at the moment so I'm stuck with Voyagers.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Double sets of Voyagers have been seen going through Nailsea and Backwell until ... well, fairly recently, I think?

[Super Guard]

Apart from that, you can't blame XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) for putting Voyagers on if demand is lower and it is more cost effective.  Once again business economics, whether you love or loath Voyagers.

Demand lower in Christmas? Is it really business economics?

If people have a bad travelling experience, they won't be back.

I made the point I would expect them to be used over Xmas period, it was the general Winter timetable I said "if" demand is lower etc...

[Super Guard]

Double sets run to/from Plymouth at weekends on certain services, but never during the week.

[eightf48544]

What this highlights is the inflexibility of fixed formation trains both HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) and DEMUs^▸ (Diesel Electric Multiple Unit) and DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) and the the new IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.). Unless you haul air about you are always going to have on say on West Country to Scotalnd services when the train is either grossly overloaded or half empty.

Splitting helps but it means you need more units.

Wasn't it Anglia that ran with different length sets during the day so 11 on the peak trains and 8 on off peak. OK so you park the 11 coach set up duirng the day but it's cheaper to lease and run you can uncouple the loco and run it on a shorter set.

I go with Ian Walmsley a big electric loco (8000 +hp) coaches and a DVT^‡(resolve) and a decent Diesel loco (59s pulling power and 67s 125 top speed plus good acceleration) for off the wire. You can even split at the loco change point so the diesel only tales half the train on. A la REPS TCs^‡(resolve) 33s on the Waterloo Weymouths. IMO^▸ (in my opinion) one of the slickest train operations ever.

[paul7575]

Dubious about double sets in Bournemouth, even with the service being halved to two hourly at the moment due to the engineering at Southampton. The 1300 BMH-MAN on Sunday just gone was a four car if I remember rightly. Not wanting to strain my mind too much at this time of night but I'd hope that any sets released due to the Soton tunnel works were used as strengthening elsewhere.

Sorry it isn't dubious about double sets to Bournemouth - they happen - I see them. I couldn't hazard a guess as to which particular services they are are normally timetabled on, but they do happen occasionally. 

With respect to the tunnel works - why should the displaced sets be used elsewhere? XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) are still running the normal weekday timetable, it is only weekends when they divert via Laverstock. So half the frequency should use doubled units.  Exactly the same doubling occurs when the Bournemouths run via Guildford and Havant for other engineering works.

Paul

[bemmy]

I haven't seen a double voyager for a few years, do you still get them? I've been on a fair few 4-car sets that had enough passengers for two....

Not too sure where you live Bemmy but there are platform restrictions for Voyagers in the West Country, max of eight vehicles in public use West of Exeter and a max of seven in public use West of Plymouth, hence the lack of double sets in the far West. I believe there are services that double up at Bristol, the PLY^» (Plymouth - next trains)-DEE springs to mind.

I live in Bedminster (hence the name) and just going about Bristol I probably see at least one Voyager every day, and can't remember the last time I saw a double one. I often travel to Cornwall and these days usually manage to avoid using them. Although I haven't travelled north for a while, I often see Voyagers at Temple Meads or on Filton Bank, and again can't remember a double one in the last few years. So either the doubling up is limited to a very few services such as those people have mentioned, or it's a bizarre coincidence that I never happen to see one.

[IndustryInsider]

Sorry it isn't dubious about double sets to Bournemouth - they happen - I see them. I couldn't hazard a guess as to which particular services they are are normally timetabled on, but they do happen occasionally. 

It is occasionally. Occasionally enough that it really doesn't make any real difference overall, and far too many Bournemouth's are 4-cars and are full and standing from Oxford on normal days of travel. Watch the farcical scenes on them next week...

[dooby13]

Am I the only person who much prefers X-C voyagers to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) bangers?

[inspector_blakey]

Yes.

We established this fact thoroughly last week...

[matt473]

To complicate things even further, out of the newer trains that were made for long distance travel, the 180s were prefered by passengers to 220/221s as they were a seen as a better environment internally. It's a shame that they were unreliable as these could have been the ideal addition to the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) fleet when FGW^▸ (First Great Western) were rid of them. As a few people have pointed out, if the 180s had the reliability of the voyagers we could have had a perfect train for XC network if a suitable number of sets were ordered.

[Zoe]

if the 180s had the reliability of the voyagers we could have had a perfect train for XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) network if a suitable number of sets were ordered.

5 coaches on on the Plymouth to Edinburgh route is still a bit short though and there is still a question on the suitability of underfloor engine DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) on long distance intercity routes.

[Btline]

Most of the problems the Voyagers have would be sorted by adding extra coaches and then doing an internal refurb. Physically they are a good  type of train for the route - fast acceleration between stops and junctions pauses.

[paul7575]

This is a stupid idea. Remember that the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) use was not just to provide 5 8 car trains, but to allow an additional 5 Voyagers to be made double.

No it wasn't - becasue when the 5 HSTs were delivered 5 additonal 221s were released back from XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) to Virgin West Coast.

Paul

Exactly, as I point out on my post!

Ooopss...    must read whole sentence...

Sorry about that

Paul

[r james]

I wonder how likely it is that some of the 180s will be aquired by XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)), in exchange for their HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train)?

How many 180s are there that arent already with Grand central or Hull trains?  I understand that East coast are interested in swapping HSTs for their 180s too?

Perhaps not a bad idea, as it leaves two 180s operators, and an operator with a HST fleet.