Splitting tickets to be banned?

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

I've heard the same rumour but with additional info that it is ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies see - here) that want to make changes to the Conditions of Carriage to change this, posibly as a result of lost revenue through split ticketing. As has been pointed out though, it is impossible to enforce and is likely to lead to more uneccesary aggrevation for staff that challenge this whilst further confusing the travelling public. Seems to be a rumour which is probably true to a degree but is unlikely to happen as a result of the problems assosciated with it

If it is an idea that ATOC are considering then it wouldn't surprise me. They (and the individual TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company)) need to stop tinkering at the edges of fares and restrictions. What is needed is an independently commissioned study into the current fares mess structure we have in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom). All involved parties; TOCs, Govt (national and local), passenger groups etc, should have an input and when a final decision is made on a new fares structure it should be controlled and implemented by a legally constituted independent body. I'm not usually one for further fragmentation of the rail network, but in this case I think it is needed.

ATOC have failed miserably in managing the fares structure since privatisation. The only positive has been Advance fares. But even these have added to the growing multitude of ticket options per journey we have had since April Fool's Day 1994.

[inspector_blakey]

As to buy 2 tickets (Frome - Taunton & Taunton - Totnes) Ticket collector refuses to comply and insists I get off at Taunton and buy the Taunton - Totnes ticket at Taunton Station.

Report him. That's a breach of the conditions of carriage, plain and simple. He needs, at the very least, what might euphemistically be referred to as some "re-training".

[thetrout]

Report him. That's a breach of the conditions of carriage, plain and simple. He needs, at the very least, what might euphemistically be referred to as some "re-training".

Indeed...! I thought he was wrong... But I couldn't be bothered to argue the point at the time as I had a report I needed to finish before arriving at Totnes... I needed to change at Taunton, Tiverton Parkway, Exeter St Davids or Newton Abbot anyway so really it made no difference to me... But it's a good job I can still remember his name...

*Trout opens MS Outlook 2007 to write angry e-mail*

[Timmer]

If it is true then it just goes to show how greedy ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies see - here) are. They need closing down.

I've got very little time for ATOC and they give the rail industry a bad name IMHO^▸ ('in my humble opinion'), especially when it comes to explaining fares increases! Yes it's there to serve the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) purposes but at least they could do a better job of representing the TOCs with better PR^▸ (Public Relations).

[Zoe]

The only positive has been Advance fares.

Even these were introduced at the expense of affordable walk-on fares on some routes.

[Ollie]

Now that the Conditions of Carriage doesn't come in a printed format it is quite easy for ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies see - here) to change it.

[Mookiemoo]

Now that the Conditions of Carriage doesn't come in a printed format it is quite easy for ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies see - here) to change it.

Does that not contravene the DDA^» (Disability Discrimination Act - about)?

Not a fan of the DDA but..........

[Ollie]

People who need large print or something have to request it via the appropriate customer services department.

[moonrakerz]

Even if you have flexible tickets, how do you meet this rule ?   leave the train ? touch the platform ? move to a different seat ? tell the guard: "honest, I did get off and on, but you didn't see me doing it, because you were 5 coaches away doing the doors" !!

I think the idea is that you would be forced to change trains, getting off the train and back on again wouldn't count as a change.

If I buy a ticket from (say) Temple Meads to Westbury, then another ticket from Westbury to Salisbury, (to take advantage of split ticketing) we would then have the ludicrous situation of the train companies stipulating how long I should spend on my visit to Westbury. If I decide that 5 seconds is long enough to spend at Westbury station just what right has the train company to tell me that I should spend an hour or two there ?

[brompton rail]

All rail tickets (whether advance purchase cheapos or full price tickets) can be purchased in advance, from travel centres, stations, travel agents (do they still sell 'em?) or internet.

THerefore, what is the difference between turning up at the TC^▸ (Train Crew, or Travelling Chef, depending on context)/Station today and asking for a ticket Bristol to Swindon tomorrow, and a ticket Swindon to Reading tomorrow (peak or off peak doesn't matter) or turning up there tomorrow before your train departs?  If the answer is " sorry, sir. but you can only book Swindon to Reading tickets at Swindon" then the amount of rail business lost will see empty trains, ROSCOS going bust, and no ticketing commission for rail operators and train conductors.

Um!  Just another pointless rumour in my opinion.

[paul7575]

I wonder if what might be happening is that ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies see - here) realise (as they must) that split ticketing that produces much lower fares is an indication that the normal fares have gone a bit stupid, and looks bad for the whole industry. If I was in their shoes, I'd be quietly suggesting to the member TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) that it was in all their interests to adjust fares to remove the more ridiculous discrepancies. If splitting fares then became a matter of saving only the odd few quid I think many pax would no longer bother...

Paul

[ChrisB]

That's already happening.

With FGW^▸ (First Great Western), ticket prices to / from Didcot from the West have gone up quite a bit in January....to dissuade this happening.

[devon_metro]

From January during the super off peak

Swindon - London Paddington
^39.80

Splitting at Didcot
^20 + ^8.90
Totals ^28.90

Still a considerable saving.

[JayMac]

...If splitting fares then became a matter of saving only the odd few quid I think many pax would no longer bother...

If it were a few pence, I'd still bother. I don't give away any money unnecessarily. But then maybe that's just me. As an example, I'll buy my rail ticket with PlusBus from East Coast's website for travel to/from Taunton, because it is 5p cheaper than buying it from the station. If there's an anomaly in my favour, I'll exploit it!!

[Chris from Nailsea]

Referring to the current version of the on-line National Rail Conditions of Carriage, (updated 4 December 2009), it states quite clearly:

19. Using a combination of tickets
You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they cover the entire journey and one of the following applies:
(a) they are both Zonal Tickets (unless special conditions prohibit their use);
(b) the train you are in calls at a station where you change from one ticket to another; or
(c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does not include Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport executive or local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s) is/are not.

(my emphasis)

A couple of points from me:

1. Just in case it is really so easy for ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies see - here) to amend these National Rail Conditions of Carriage without anyone noticing, now that they are no longer issued in printed form: I have saved a copy of this current wording as my own 'pdf'!

2. And actually, what is the consultation process that would be required, if ATOC did want to introduce such a change to these National Rail Conditions of Carriage?  Rather detailed, convoluted and time-consuming, I'd suspect?

Does anyone have any credible source as to where this 'rumour' originated?