Windsor Link Rail

[whole diary]

[Lee]

Apologies if we've already covered this somewhere, but the following proposals are getting a fair bit of press, and I'd be interested to know what forum members think of them - http://windsorlink.co.uk/default.aspx

[JayMac]

Interesting, but far far better if somebody bothered to proof-read the website. It's full of spelling mistakes or typographical errors. Would rather put me off if I were a potential investor.....

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

will someone please tell them about the gmpte funded link from south manchester to salford built in the 80's

[Electric train]

Wishful thinking is the best I can come up with, the Bourne End High Wycombe bit is iffy at best due to the (shortsighted) development on the old alignment although there are some proposals already, a tunnel under Windsor I think the owner of the little house on the hill might have something to say about that.   

[paul7575]

The local press aren't much interested in this, it would seem:

Railway plan faces new criticism
 
THE man behind a grand plan to build a new train station and business centre in Windsor and Chalvey has still not received any formal support from local authorities.

http://www.windsorobserver.co.uk/news/roundup/articles/2010/01/08/44074-railway-plan-faces-new-criticism-/

Paul

[Btline]

It's not going to happen for many reasons (money, trackbeds blocked etc)

But the big boo-boo is that none of the "new" services serve London. So they won't be used!

[Electric train]

Had not realised that part of his scheme was to lower the track bed in Datchet, for those who do not know the topography of Datchet the station is really only a few feet above river level the ground is likely to be gravel therefore battling with the water table will be difficult; the Windsor / Stains service is quite busy so what are all those existing passengers going to do for the 2 years it will take to construct the new tunnels he is just pandering to the car drivers who moan about waiting at the 2 level crossings.

Trying to link the 2 Windsor lines with a tunnel   

[eightf48544]

We discussed thiss proposal at the Slough and Windsor Railway Society meeting last Friday with Christian  Wolmar.

It was generally agreed that Linging the GW^» (Great Western - used as an abbreviation for the area / lines under the Great Western franchise, as opposed to FGW which includes "First", the company operating them too. For tickets - about) and SR^▸ (Southern Railway / Southern Region / Scot Rail / Scottish Region (rather confusing - it depends on the context)) lines in Windsor was  pie in the sky for several reasons. Not least of which is Electric trains little house on the hill. The map on teh web site shows a large U to get round this obsticle.

Further linking the two lines doesn't really gve many more journey oportunities. The main problem being is that the Windsor doesn't haven't direct services onto the SW main line. Thus you would still have to change if you wanted to go Slough to Portsmouth it would still probably be quicker to go via London or maybe Reading.

The only bit that would form a really useful link is Bourne End High Wycombe, which as Electric train says is iffy. However, if it were to be reinstated and East West  reinstatement gets the go ahead then it forms an important North South link in Bucks all the major towns Slough (in Bucks until 1974) Maidenhead, High Wycombe Ayesbury Bletchley Milton Keynes, with onward connections at Milton Keynes and Bedford.

Just a thought they knocked down 14,000 houses when St Pancras was built and demolished a whole road in Walthamstow/Leyton to put in the Motorway.

So a few odd building between Bourne End and Wycombe don't really count. 

[paul7575]

Is this guy not just flogging a dead horse?  The local press article seems to be implying that any day now NR^» (Network Rail - home page) are finally going to agree that his plans are go.  Personally I just don't see it happening at all.

Royal Borough councillor and entrepreneur George Bathurst has been planning the Windsor Link Railway (WLR), to link the two Windsor stations by tunnel, since 2009.

The decision has been the subject of a series of delays,  but Cllr Bathurst now hopes to be given the green light in May, with a meeting with Network Rail scheduled for the last week of April.

Cllr Bathurst said: "It's slipped back and been delayed a few times, but it's in progress. I had a chat with them today (Wednesday) and I should know in May what the decision is."

http://www.windsorobserver.co.uk/news/roundup/articles/2013/04/08/88225-councillor-hopes-for-end-to-station-link-saga-and-praises-survey-results/

Paul

[johoare]

I can't see how that would work? Windsor and Eton Central is lot higher up than Windsor and Eton Riverside..As is the line coming into Windsor and Eton Central as it goes across the river..

[paul7575]

I suspect that aspect (linking the two stationss) is an error, I'm pretty sure from earlier discussions his plan is just to link the two routes, and the existing Central platform would almost certainly close. But even then there's no easy solution to the height difference, once you start looking at curvatures and gradients - assuming you use the existing river bridge on the Slough branch...

Engineering design by using a coloured pencil on a route map, as someone once said...

Paul 

[swrural]

Have you seen this link?

http://windsorlink.co.uk/

Any comment?

Edit
This is the relevant paragraph:

"To correct this, phase 1 of the Windsor Link Railway proposes a new tunnel to connect the two lines. Connecting these had been proposed before but failed to resolve the problem of the two existing stations being at such different levels. The Windsor Link Railway resolves this by ignoring the two existing stations and proposing a new station in between the two with a tunnel connecting them. As the two lines enter the town at similar levels this results in less steep gradients than on the existing lines. Also, by proposing a cut-n-cover tunnel under an existing road, construction time and cost are minimised, as is the environmental impact. This new tunnel is shown in red in the phase 1 circle on the above map. This is the tunnel in Windsor (shown in red in the phase 1 circle). For aerial photos on this route through Windsor, have a look at the Windsor page."

[paul7575]

Yes, but I think the whole plan is completely irrational.  People want direct - the HLOS^▸ (High Level Output Specification - the DfT's High Level Output Specification, which has specified to Network Rail the outputs that need to be delivered within a Control Period (CP)) proposal for WRAtH^▸ (Western Rail Access to Heathrow) is a bit non specific, but I'll put a few bob on NR^» (Network Rail - home page) not being interested at all in a round the houses route as per this proposal. There are far easier solutions, straight out from T5 and take a right, connecting with a westwards curve to the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) - and they don't require a cut and cover underground station in Windsor...

I also see he suddenly throws into the mix a 20 minute reduction in journey time to Waterloo - how the heck does that work then?

Paul

[eightf48544]

Knowing Windsor quite well the route between the two lines is probably just about feasible. The curve off the Slough line after the bridge would be quite sharp as shown on the map of Phase one almost 180. Then apart from the fact you are close to river (probably require continuous pumpoing during construction) it would be possible to build a cut and cover line to meet end on with the Datchet line. See the alingment. Building it would cause massive disruption to the coach park and the road to Datchet. The curves and gradients could  be less than some on East London link at Shorditch or for gradient Farringdon to Blackfriars on Thameslink but not by much.

As far as I could see on their map there was no sign of where the station would be. I presumme that it would be like Crossrail Paddington next to and a lower level than the existing SWT^▸ (South West Trains) station.

In my view re-instating Bourne to High Wycombe would take priority, over this link, but as we are squeamish about knocking down buildings to build railway lines (for roads it's OK) it's unlikely to happen.It would also require long stretches of double track to cater for 4tph in each direction, this would also apply to the open section between Maidenhead and Bourne End as well. There's also the level crossings in Bourne End and Loudwater to consider. So I don't think there's much chance.

But probably greater than the Winsor Link.

[Electric train]

I am sure that NR^» (Network Rail - home page) will GRIP^▸ (Guide to Railway Investment Projects - Network Rail's process for project management of schemes through development and implementation) http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/4171.aspx George Bathurst's plans very firmly .........

............  to death