18:33 London Paddington to Oxford - HST or Turbo - and alternative trains

[whole diary]

[johoare]

I have asked them on March 21st.. I'm still waiting for a reply..

[Ollie]

Okay, I will try do some digging too

[willc]

Might be that it's very lightly loaded beyond Reading. If you get on the 18.18 or 18.22 and change at Reading, you comfortably beat the 18.33 to the stops between Reading and Didcot, while the 18.48 from London is hard on its heels along this stretch.

On the odd occasion I have seen it arrive at Oxford - obviously not its key destination - you could be forgiven for thinking it was an ecs working, so few people get off.

I suspect they have done some passenger counts - much in evidence on the Cotswold Line lately - and decided that this service is not paying its way once those bound for Maidenhead have got off.

[IndustryInsider]

I wouldn't like to guess too accurately how many get off at Maidenhead, but it's LOTS.  About 50 get off at Twyford, 20 at Reading (most of which who've boarded at Maidenhead and Twyford), then 10-25 at all the Thames Valley stations (often including Mr. Hopwood himself at Pangbourne) - again probably most have joined it at Reading. Then maybe 5-10 leave at Didcot and also at Radley.

[argg]

Incidentally we had a nice turbo instead of our HST^▸ (High Speed Train) this evening, from platform 13 which meant a lot of hot people (from running) on a very full up train.. It was three carriages and was packed to overflowing yet all these people (and I'm sure there were more who missed the train) are expected to fit on two carriages from May.. Hhmm.. that is a scary prospect..

To be fair to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) (and I don't often say that) last night the 18.30 Weston Super Mare service made an extra stop at Maidenhead and this was announced so I guess most of the M'head passengers were expected to join that train.

Making that a permanent alteration would surely make sense when the 18.33 is withdrawn.  Together with the additional stop at Twyford by the 18.47 Cheltenham service that would account for most of the current 18.33 users.

Going back to the original point of this topic (the now almost regular substitution of a 3 car turbo from HST) - perhaps this is FGW's way of getting the M'head passengers used to the "cosy" travelling experience they are about to enjoy. 

By the way does anyone know how full the 18.47 Cheltenham service is currently?  Will it accommodate the additional 50(?) for Twyford ?

[Gordon the Blue Engine]

I'm sure (well I hope) FGW^▸ (First Great Western) looked at stopping the 1833 (ie retimed from 1836) Padd to Exeter HST^▸ (High Speed Train) at Maidenhead from May for the displaced passengers off the current 1833 Padd - Oxford, but maybe it's full already. From the timings point of view it might as well call at Maidenhead as be stopped at red signals at Reading Gasworks every night waiting for the 1830 Padd - WSM to clear Plaform 4.

If there was room on this train there would be lots of happy Maidenhead passengers and FGW could save a  2-car turbo in the evening peak by not having to strengthen the 1836 Padd - Bourne End.

[devon_metro]

As you say, I rather suspect it is full with passengers for Newbury, Hungerford and the stations in Wiltshire.

[willc]

Was later than usual heading home this evening, so saw the 18.33 arrive at Oxford three minutes late at 20.19. It took five minutes to get it off to the sidings, with the 20.22 for Hereford sat just outside the station. We eventually got out of Oxford at about 20.30.

And they want us to believe they will shift four trains through that platform in 16 minutes from May...

[johoare]

To be fair to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) (and I don't often say that) last night the 18.30 Weston Super Mare service made an extra stop at Maidenhead and this was announced so I guess most of the M'head passengers were expected to join that train.

I arrived at Paddington about 18.27 and didn't hear/see the announcement but seeing the amount of people that got onto the 18.33 on platform 13 I guess either a lot of other people missed it too, or the 18.30 was too full up as I can't believe they'd have all chosen to run to platform 13 if there was another train nearby..

[dog box]

The 1830 to WSM is always pretty full...but about 40/ 50 got off at Maidenhead. how about stopping this train Maidenhead, Twyford, Didcot..

[Gordon the Blue Engine]

The 1830 to WSM is always pretty full...but about 40/ 50 got off at Maidenhead. how about stopping this train Maidenhead, Twyford, Didcot..

Problem is the retimed 1833 Padd - Exeter is right behind, so you can't put stops in the 1830 Padd-WSM before Reading.  That's why I suggested the 1833 Padd-Exeter should have the Maidenhead stop - it can stop on the DM and still have a margin in front of 1845 Padd-S.Wales at Reading.

And picking up Devon Metro's point about 1833 ex Padd being full of Berks and Hants passengers, I wonder if it's any more crowded than other HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s between Padd and Reading in the evening peak? I don't know, I don't travel on it, but I just wondered.

[johoare]

Well I finally got a reply (slightly longer than 5 working days) from FGW^▸ (First Great Western)...

"Thank you for your email.

We are aware of concern that the removal of our 1833 Oxford service from May has created but our timetable team has taken care to provide good alternatives. Twyford passengers will now be able to use the 1848 fast train to Cheltenham, and Maidenhead passengers will be able to use a retimed Bourne End service, which will run at 1836.

This train will be accelerated to run as a fast service (27 minutes to Maidenhead) and will in future run as a five-car turbo train.  I know that its not the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) that many hoped for however it will be fast and the two extra carriages will give 186 extra seats. 

Just to let you know we've been able to add a Maidenhead call into the 1947 Paddington service.  This means we now extend the pattern of fast trains to Maidenhead right through to 8pm, something Maidenhead passengers have asked us to do in the past.

We will also be making an immediate improvement in seating capacity in the morning peak with an extra carriage on the 0703 from Maidenhead, and a new stop at Maidenhead at 0610 on a retimed 0559 departure from Reading. This adds a further fast morning train for Maidenhead.

Our Turbo refresh programme is already underway and this will much improve the quality onboard these trains. This includes the provision of a more reliable air-conditioning system.

Thanks again for your email and for the chance to explain."

This totally ignores the problem of fitting all those people into two carriages (they hardly fitted into three the other day) and also says it will be 27 minutes to Maidenhead whereas NR^» (Network Rail - home page) website is saying 30.. Either way it's adding an extra 11 or 14 minutes onto our journey which they've also ignored.. The bit about us hoping for an HST is weird too.. We'd just like a train really, any type will be fine.

They also didn't tell me why they'd done it so if you can find out who is getting our train Ollie that would be good?

I should email them again to challenge them on these points but I know it won't make a difference so I won't.

Hopefully Theresa May might do some good instead..

[Ollie]

They also didn't tell me why they'd done it so if you can find out who is getting our train Ollie that would be good?

I sent an e-mail to a colleague in train planning, but at the time they would have been busy with planning the strike, I would hope that I get a reply after Easter, will let you know Jo.

[johoare]

Thanks Ollie. I guess the imminent (as was) strike was probably what delayed their reply to me in the first place too

[Ollie]

It's not quite as simple as withdrawal of the 1833. This is part of a package which whilst releasing a unit for Refresh cover in summer also provides a number of other changes. Indeed the headline message is that if any train is withdrawn then in many respects it can be argued that it is a mix of the 1833 Mains and the 1842 Relief Line departure which due to its speed is lightly used

A summary of some of the changes:
^     To improve fast services to Slough and Twyford and better match capacity to demand changes are made to Paddington peak services including:
^     1736 to Oxford is retimed to depart 1733 being formed of an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) vice Turbo and ceases to call Radley which is instead served by an additional call at 1803 in the 1627 to Oxford giving a more consistently ^ hourly service instead of the previously bunched pattern
^     1833 to Oxford is withdrawn. Passengers for local stations beyond Reading carried by extending 1815 Paddington ^ Reading to Oxford
^     1848 to Cheltenham calls additionally at Twyford
^     1812 to Henley is formed with 1 x Turbo unit vice 2 x Turbo unit whilst the 1842 to Bourne End is strengthened to be a 5 car whilst retimed to depart 1836 and be accelerated to run over the mains (to detach rear 2 cars at Maidenhead during extended dwell)
^     1742 to Bourne End is accelerated, arriving 4min earlier than currently with a package of minor branch retimings made until mid-evening